"For the price"? That's a speaker for 254,000 Euros if I'm not mistaken. So it's relatively cheap or what, compared to others?
I thought you were against what you once seemed to call ridiculously expensive speakers. Apparently not.
What are the Top Horn Speakers in the World Today? Vox Olympian vs Avantgarde Trio vs ???
- Thread starter caesar
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"For the price"? That's a speaker for 254,000 Euros if I'm not mistaken. So it's relatively cheap or what, compared to others?
I thought you were against what you once seemed to call ridiculously expensive speakers. Apparently not.
I explained this to you before in post No. 753 and discussed the relationship between dynamics and efficiency. True dynamics and the jump factor occur when a saxophone note explodes out of the system and resonates through your whole being. That’s a very different experience from controlled, polished, studio-like monitors such as TAD, where the saxophone comes across as a dry, soulless note without bloom — one that simply passes by, announcing its presence without ever conveying the depth or spirit of the music.
This is not only related to TAD, low eff speakers like Magico, Wilson, YG, etc., when paired with high-power SS amps at low volume levels, lose their liveliness and dynamics. This is due to the design characteristics of low eff speakers, which require more power to deliver dynamic response and fine details at lower volumes. In such cases, these speakers often fail to perform effectively, and the sound can appear dull or lifeless.
Do you even read my messages completely?! I didn't say that adding a subwoofer is only for bass extension. A subwoofer can add more depth and space to the soundstage, enhancing musical engagement by creating a more immersive and realistic listening experience. This sense of space makes the sound feel more natural and three-dimensional, allowing you to experience the music as if it’s surrounding you. So, it’s not just about hearing deeper bass, it’s about feeling more connected to the music as a whole.
Yes, we can see that no compact speakers are available in the markets for 90k.
I also included a graph of the compact reference model, if you've seen it.
Not from theory, but from listening experience, I’m speaking based on my own direct listening to the TAD CR1 with an Ayre SS setup, and comparing it with DeVore and a SET. So learn to accept the facts, and don’t dismiss opinions you don’t like as baseless theories.
Yes, I know about TAD's coaxial unit, but what's funny is that you don't read the contents I've written completely, and because of that, you make assumptions. As I mentioned in my response to mtemur, time alignment cannot be achieved simply by using a single coaxial unit with concentric drivers. In TAD's coaxial unit, the midrange/tweeter is not aligned with the woofer, unlike Wilson's design.
You don't even know the meaning of physical time alignment of drivers.
You did well to hear that set up to be frank.
Imagine what percentage of the world's population manages to do that? And if they did, what percentage would care?
It is a niche market explored by relatively few I think.
Sorry, I thought you were replying to Altec video, I missed that you are replying to the Signa MAAT Kondo video, as I posted the Altec Scheherazade too, much after that. My comments were in reference to that
Subject to more serious critical listening to confirm, my favorite all around speaker for the goals we have discussed about effortless, just effortless scale, incredibly effortless nuance, midrange magic and bass bass bass foundation.
But it takes a commitment of SPACE to do it. The footprint is probably 5 feet deep by 5 feet wide...per channel...it probably can be more done more compactly, but its never going to be a 2' x 3' footprint Rockport Arrakis (my 2nd favorite speaker). The only other option is to go with different subs...stacked more compact subs like REL, Perlisten or Funk, or Pure Low Sub Panels. I have looked at the measurements of AG's more compact bass modules the TwinSub...still 36" deep by 14" wide and some 30" in height. 95cm x 36cm x 78cm. Still a meaningful amount of floor space per sub.
Of course, Amir's marketing-driven, illogical opinions, as a dealer for brands like TAD, Vitus, ASR, and Weiss, may not be too surprising. I had seen his posts before in the Audiophilestyle forum, where, back then, he was just a regular audiophile expressing his genuine, personal opinions and following the path of high-efficiency systems. But since he realized that his favourite brands like Living Voice, Audionote, and AN tube amps don't have strong marketing, he set aside his own beliefs and turned toward high-tech, more heavily advertised brands with greater marketing potential. These are the same brands he used to criticize harshly in that forum, calling them lifeless, boring, and saying he didn’t like them at all. Now, he claims their dynamics and musicality are on par with high-efficiency speakers and horns.
Of course, many dealers in this forum are passionate audiophiles who represent brands they truly believe in, not just for financial reasons. They don’t turn to brands or paths they previously criticized and didn’t genuinely like, nor do they become representatives of brands they once found soulless, just to take on their representation for financial gain and blindly defend them.
audiophilestyle.com
audiophilestyle.com
Amir's opinions about his current brands and efficiency in that forum:
"My taste may be different to you because I just like sound of audio note and living voice , if you like over 100w solid-state amplifier and 90db or lower sensitivity speaker then there is no relation between my taste and your taste and my comment is not for you"
"make long story short : I think most audiophiles (over 90%) like stereophile recommendation list, they enjoy 500w amplifiers with 86db 3way huge loudspeakers. some audiophiles (less than 5%) like old tannoys , living voice , old kondo amplifiers , old horns. I share my ideas for those 5% not for 95%"
"if I prefer horn/low power amps it means I like micro dynamics of sound"
"i do not like upsample DACs , i like minimalist zero oversample , no jitter correction , true multibit , bit perfect DAC.
ypsilon , Audio note are good."
"EAR DAC4 is good in 8k$ range.
AMR , Audionote are good also.
Weiss sound is not my favorite.
If you use “comparison by contrast” method you will find Audio Note DAC has more transparent and more resolution sound in comparison by dCS/Weiss/MSB"
"please go out of theory and speak about real life , in theory many thing in audio could be ideal like flat frequency response of speakers or zero distortion amplifiers but in real world those ideal measurement speakers/amplifiers sounds crap to my ears."
"I have heard many many many audio systems in Tehran , all expensive (over 200k) brands like kharma marten Wilson focal dynaudio TAD Gryphon krell Vitus ASR CJ AR and so but none of them sounded like tanoy red (old model) or audio note uk speaker.
when you hear low efficiency speakers with high power ss amplifiers you just have macro dynamics not micro dynamics.
for checking micro dynamics you can check these items:
- decay of sound when it goes to hide
- liveness and fullness of sound when you decrease the volume
micro dynamics in music inject energy and without it the sound has no soul.
listen to FM Acoustics or Vitus Audio , they are king of transparency resolution smoothness and pinnacle of every audiophile but where is the soul ? where is the emotion? me and some guys (may be 5% of audiophiles think like me) do not like these sounds. it is boring to us.
listen to Audio Note Kondo Japan with Living Voice horn they are not in super resolution category but they give you true life true music true enjoyment."
___________________________
I should mention that when he became a dealer for his current brands, which weren't particularly appealing to him, and was forced to leave that forum, he removed his profile picture and changed his location from Iran to the UAE. However, he couldn't delete or edit his previous posts.
Of course, many dealers in this forum are passionate audiophiles who represent brands they truly believe in, not just for financial reasons. They don’t turn to brands or paths they previously criticized and didn’t genuinely like, nor do they become representatives of brands they once found soulless, just to take on their representation for financial gain and blindly defend them.
My Summary about Computer Audio Music Server
before reading my post please note my idea may not be useful to you , My taste may be different to you because I just like sound of audio note and living voice , if you like over 100w solid-state amplifier and 90db or lower sensitivity speaker then there is no relation between my taste and your t...
audiophilestyle.com
My Setup Macbook Pro
My Setup : Macbook Pro Retina 2014 (USB 3.0 output) MAC OS X Yosemite Audirvana Bit-Perfect EAR Yoshino DAC 4 D/A Converter EAR Yoshino HP4 Headphone Amp All purist Audio Neptune Series Cables (USB Anniversary , Interconnect , Power Cord , ...) Sennheiser HD800 Headphone ifi iUSB 3.0 Wavelength W...
audiophilestyle.com
Amir's opinions about his current brands and efficiency in that forum:
"My taste may be different to you because I just like sound of audio note and living voice , if you like over 100w solid-state amplifier and 90db or lower sensitivity speaker then there is no relation between my taste and your taste and my comment is not for you"
"make long story short : I think most audiophiles (over 90%) like stereophile recommendation list, they enjoy 500w amplifiers with 86db 3way huge loudspeakers. some audiophiles (less than 5%) like old tannoys , living voice , old kondo amplifiers , old horns. I share my ideas for those 5% not for 95%"
"if I prefer horn/low power amps it means I like micro dynamics of sound"
"i do not like upsample DACs , i like minimalist zero oversample , no jitter correction , true multibit , bit perfect DAC.
ypsilon , Audio note are good."
"EAR DAC4 is good in 8k$ range.
AMR , Audionote are good also.
Weiss sound is not my favorite.
If you use “comparison by contrast” method you will find Audio Note DAC has more transparent and more resolution sound in comparison by dCS/Weiss/MSB"
"please go out of theory and speak about real life , in theory many thing in audio could be ideal like flat frequency response of speakers or zero distortion amplifiers but in real world those ideal measurement speakers/amplifiers sounds crap to my ears."
"I have heard many many many audio systems in Tehran , all expensive (over 200k) brands like kharma marten Wilson focal dynaudio TAD Gryphon krell Vitus ASR CJ AR and so but none of them sounded like tanoy red (old model) or audio note uk speaker.
when you hear low efficiency speakers with high power ss amplifiers you just have macro dynamics not micro dynamics.
for checking micro dynamics you can check these items:
- decay of sound when it goes to hide
- liveness and fullness of sound when you decrease the volume
micro dynamics in music inject energy and without it the sound has no soul.
listen to FM Acoustics or Vitus Audio , they are king of transparency resolution smoothness and pinnacle of every audiophile but where is the soul ? where is the emotion? me and some guys (may be 5% of audiophiles think like me) do not like these sounds. it is boring to us.
listen to Audio Note Kondo Japan with Living Voice horn they are not in super resolution category but they give you true life true music true enjoyment."
___________________________
I should mention that when he became a dealer for his current brands, which weren't particularly appealing to him, and was forced to leave that forum, he removed his profile picture and changed his location from Iran to the UAE. However, he couldn't delete or edit his previous posts.
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I asked a similar question and my post vanished!
Not sure why, it's not exactly a secret that many horn speaker makers aren't building their own compression drivers in the back workshop. Big companies with large budgets, an engineering team and high tech measurement facilities do that. (thankfully)
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Perhaps you could have said "IMO you are VERY opinionated."
Don't we want opinions -- especially from those with broad experience?
It is safe to assume that other than stating believed-to-be-facts, every post is inherently IMO.
Extremely interesting post. Amir made some very intelligent posts on the Audiophile style forum.Of course, Amir's marketing-driven, illogical opinions, as a dealer for brands like TAD, Vitus, ASR, and Weiss, may not be too surprising. I had seen his posts before in the Audiophilestyle forum, where, back then, he was just a regular audiophile expressing his genuine, personal opinions and following the path of high-efficiency systems. But since he realized that his favourite brands like Living Voice, Audionote, and AN tube amps don't have strong marketing, he set aside his own beliefs and turned toward high-tech, more heavily advertised brands with greater marketing potential. These are the same brands he used to criticize harshly in that forum, calling them lifeless, boring, and saying he didn’t like them at all. Now, he claims their dynamics and musicality are on par with high-efficiency speakers and horns.
Of course, many dealers in this forum are passionate audiophiles who represent brands they truly believe in, not just for financial reasons. They don’t turn to brands or paths they previously criticized and didn’t genuinely like, nor do they become representatives of brands they once found soulless, just to take on their representation for financial gain and blindly defend them.
My Summary about Computer Audio Music Server
before reading my post please note my idea may not be useful to you , My taste may be different to you because I just like sound of audio note and living voice , if you like over 100w solid-state amplifier and 90db or lower sensitivity speaker then there is no relation between my taste and your t...My Setup Macbook Pro
My Setup : Macbook Pro Retina 2014 (USB 3.0 output) MAC OS X Yosemite Audirvana Bit-Perfect EAR Yoshino DAC 4 D/A Converter EAR Yoshino HP4 Headphone Amp All purist Audio Neptune Series Cables (USB Anniversary , Interconnect , Power Cord , ...) Sennheiser HD800 Headphone ifi iUSB 3.0 Wavelength W...
Amir's opinions about his current brands and efficiency in that forum:
"My taste may be different to you because I just like sound of audio note and living voice , if you like over 100w solid-state amplifier and 90db or lower sensitivity speaker then there is no relation between my taste and your taste and my comment is not for you"
"make long story short : I think most audiophiles (over 90%) like stereophile recommendation list, they enjoy 500w amplifiers with 86db 3way huge loudspeakers. some audiophiles (less than 5%) like old tannoys , living voice , old kondo amplifiers , old horns. I share my ideas for those 5% not for 95%"
"if I prefer horn/low power amps it means I like micro dynamics of sound"
"i do not like upsample DACs , i like minimalist zero oversample , no jitter correction , true multibit , bit perfect DAC.
ypsilon , Audio note are good."
"EAR DAC4 is good in 8k$ range.
AMR , Audionote are good also.
Weiss sound is not my favorite.
If you use “comparison by contrast” method you will find Audio Note DAC has more transparent and more resolution sound in comparison by dCS/Weiss/MSB"
"please go out of theory and speak about real life , in theory many thing in audio could be ideal like flat frequency response of speakers or zero distortion amplifiers but in real world those ideal measurement speakers/amplifiers sounds crap to my ears."
"I have heard many many many audio systems in Tehran , all expensive (over 200k) brands like kharma marten Wilson focal dynaudio TAD Gryphon krell Vitus ASR CJ AR and so but none of them sounded like tanoy red (old model) or audio note uk speaker.
when you hear low efficiency speakers with high power ss amplifiers you just have macro dynamics not micro dynamics.
for checking micro dynamics you can check these items:
- decay of sound when it goes to hide
- liveness and fullness of sound when you decrease the volume
micro dynamics in music inject energy and without it the sound has no soul.
listen to FM Acoustics or Vitus Audio , they are king of transparency resolution smoothness and pinnacle of every audiophile but where is the soul ? where is the emotion? me and some guys (may be 5% of audiophiles think like me) do not like these sounds. it is boring to us.
listen to Audio Note Kondo Japan with Living Voice horn they are not in super resolution category but they give you true life true music true enjoyment."
___________________________
I should mention that when he became a dealer for his current brands, which weren't particularly appealing to him, and was forced to leave that forum, he removed his profile picture and changed his location from Iran to the UAE. However, he couldn't delete or edit his previous posts.
I find this old quote quite interesting:
“I come from Home Audio and I mostly read goodsoundclub forum (romy the cat) and i believe in Emotional sound not impressive sound.”
I enjoy Amir’s posts and his recognition of Romy, Jim Smith, and David Karmeli as audio experts. They all certainly have strong opinions. I think Jim Smith also really liked the ASR amplifier brand.
True enough, but some here, being so thoroughly wrapped in their egos, come across only as self-appointed authorities.
This is a discussion forum where members share their opinions based on their experience and knowledge. Some have more than others, but should we not welcome them all? It is interesting that some seem sensitive about those who express their opinions with a little bit more confidence and frequency. There seems to be no realm where people do not take offense these days. Some here are quite fragile as too much weight seems to be placed on a hobby. I don’t think comments should be taken so personally.
Alright. Here is the Altec video that I suppose you meant:
The timbre sounds pretty good for a YouTube video. Unfortunately, it also sounds dynamically compressed, either by the system itself or by the video capture.
Yes, Amir considered himself a staunch follower of Romy, who strongly believed that each driver had to be carefully chosen and acoustically integrated, not just electrically spliced together. For him, first-order (6 dB/octave) crossovers were the most natural and least destructive to phase and time coherence, while higher-order crossovers ‘killed music’ by smearing timing, introducing phase shifts, and ruining the impulse response. This philosophy placed him close to designers like Jim Thiel and Richard Vandersteen, who also championed first-order filters for their coherence, although Romy expressed these convictions in his own, very uncompromising style.
But if Romy found out that his loyal follower had turned toward a marketing-driven loudspeaker with higher-order crossovers, he would certainly twist his follower’s ear — you know, Romy can be quite foul-mouthed too.
A quote from Romy:
"High order crossovers. 24dB and 48dB. This thing is a direct death for music and very symbolic and indicative that any single person who approaches the Magico is a barbarian in Sound and Music. With 24dB and 48dB per octave those speakers are only capable to play heavy metal and black rap, which was exactly the music that the Magico guy had in his disposal in Vegas."
It's perfectly legitimate for a speaker manufacturer to keep their secret ehat driver or diaphragma he used. I've been building horns myself 15 years ago. Several of them haven't really convinced me. One of the best combinations was a Fostex T 500 from 8 kHz, a JBL 2441 from 500 Hz to 8 kHz, and a 15" AT 389FN horn-loaded bass from 35 to 500 Hz. A total of 103 dB/1 watt speaker.
P.S
There is only one manufacturer that builds its pressure chamber lid like this and that is radian
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first order dual woofer Altec 817s play heavy metal better than Magicos, Wilsons, rockports, or focals.
It’s not that. Rather, for me, I respect the people whose expertise and opinions are grounded in the humility of all that they don’t know rather than what they think they know.
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