Videos of Acoustically-Coupled Audio Recordings

[hopkins]

This I will not be doing. I think one of the elements of standardization is to record from the listening position.

To me recording from other than the listening position is adding yet another variable.

Fair enough, but if you strive for standardization you should also recommend specific settings for the MV88+ (if you decide on that one) after you try them and see if they make a difference.

I record from my listening position simply because it is more practical and I am interested in hearing what it sounds like from there.

With respect to standardization, it is a nice goal, but is it realistic ?

It would be just as useful to have some kind of benchmark of various phone models and microphones, which is something lacking today. Perhaps some mic measurements would be useful. Also some recommendations as to which microphones work well specifically for these types of recordings.

YouTube system recordings are here to stay, whether we like it or not, and some guidelines would be useful.

It would also be useful for people to clearly state what recording device they are using.

 

[tima]

Musica Nuda "Eleanor Rigby"

Ron - what is the source for these two Rigbys?

I agree about positioning the recording device at the listening position, preferably close to where your head is.

 

[Carlos269]

Here are a few videos from last night’s listening session for comparison:

 

[stehno]

When you record your system through the internal mic in the iPhone and you play it back at a certain volume setting on the iPhone, at what mic gain level do you have to set the app on the MV88 to approximate the same volume level playing back on the iPhone the MV88 recording that you hear when you play the internal iPhone mic recording back on the iPhone?

Honestly I don't recall a place where I could set the internal mic's gain. There probably is but I don't recall.

As for the mv88 and mv88+ sounding a bit thin you may be right but it can also be an issue with our settings and/or positioning of the recording mic' I mean, there are some that rush out and buy professional grade mic's and place them 3 ft in front of each speaker. As if that tells anybody anything about what's occuring at the listening seat. Anyway, we're all gonna' have our variations on some of this stuff and I'm just saying, don't rule out the our addressing/ignoring these variations will have a potential effect on the mic's performance, right?

BTW, when I made that comment about the MV88's resolution not being all that much better the iPhone's built-in mic, that was not intended to be negative toward the MV88. Rather it was intended to be a positive toward Apple for employing a fairly resolving tiny built-in mic.

 

[stehno]

Elton John Greatest Hits "Saturday Night's All Right For Fighting" (DCC Compact Classics)

Shure MV88+ on tripod

Nicely done, Ron. Both on the in-room presentation and your recording. I'm rather familar with that piece and at least the CD/digital flavor I have can bring many a system to its knees as I don't suspect the quality of sound engineering at the studio and/or the A2D conversion at the pressing plant is gonna' win any awards. But if you wanna make that song a standard for in-room videos you'd probably get my vote.

Anyway, sounds like you're getting up to speed pronto on the new mic's.

If it were me and if you're comfortable enough with what you hear in the room, I'd suggest turning up the in-room volume maybe another 3db. Sounds to me like your system can easily do it. That way the listener has more options/perspectives from which to listen.

But nicely done. Kinda' fun ain't it?

 

[stehno]

Here are a few videos from last night’s listening session for comparison:

Your sound has always impressed. But I'm also equally impressed (puzzled) how your videos are capturing a good dose of musicality with all that STUFF in the room. Especially since I'm a huge fan of careful speaker placement. Plus I prefer more of a symetrical and minimalist furnishings type of room. So perhaps your playback config(s) puzzle me more than they should?

At the very least, I suppose that's one way to get off the buy/sell merry-go-round. Just buy.

 

[hopkins]

Here are a few videos from last night’s listening session for comparison...

You should add in your video descriptions the recording equipment used. The recording quality is sufficient to identify a very different sound signature from Ron's system, which would probably not change much with different equipment, but I am still curious to know...

 

[bonzo75]

Ron, can you please make some change, like taking off the bass traps and recording before and after with both Shure and iPhone? It will tell is the value of Shure if we can hear the change in it and not in iPhone

 

[Al M.]

Your sound has always impressed. But I'm also equally impressed (puzzled) how your videos are capturing a good dose of musicality with all that STUFF in the room. Especially since I'm a huge fan of careful speaker placement. Plus I prefer more of a symetrical and minimalist furnishings type of room. So perhaps your playback config(s) puzzle me more than they should?

Videos can mask in-room distortions.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron - what is the source for these two Rigbys?

Vinyl. Peter says I have the re-issue version. It sounds brighter in my room -- and brighter still on the videos, especially on the MV88+ -- than it sounded on David's Bionors.

I agree about positioning the recording device at the listening position, preferably close to where your head is.

MV88+ on the tripod is literally only an inch or two behind where my ears would be.

When I handhold the iPhone I hold it a few inches below ear level and a few inches in front of my ears (just for handholding comfort and steadiness).

 

[PeterA]

Ron, I am still away from my desk computer speakers and headphones, so I can only listen via iPhone. Even through this inferior device, I hear quite different presentations between the various Eleanor Rigby videos, Tang’s being my favorite. Tima’s is quite excellent too. I have not heard Carlos’s yet.

I like your desire to record at the listening seat. If your seat location now gives you the best presentation in you room, that is where the mic should be positioned for these system video shares.

Again I commend you for taking the time and making the effort to share these videos of your system. I know you are a video skeptic and that you are doing it only for your audience. I respect that.

 

[PeterA]

Vinyl. Peter says I have the re-issue version. It sounds brighter in my room -- and brighter still on the videos, especially on the MV88+ -- than it sounded on David's Bionors.



MV88+ on the tripod is literally only an inch or two behind where my ears would be.

When I handhold the iPhone I hold it a few inches below ear level and a few inches in front of my ears (just for handholding comfort and steadiness).

Ron, I think these Musica Nuda LPs where originally released in very limited quantities. I have not directly compared the original with the reissues that you mentioned are readily available today. No doubt what you hear is very different from what you heard in Utah. You have completely different systems and rooms. The video David made of Tang’s speakers before he shipped them sounds very different from your video. To me the differences are not so much about tonal balance, but rather about subtle information resulting in nuance and emotion. I do not know about the different LP issues and if that is audible. It will be interesting to listen to Carlos’s video too. I presume his source is a digital download.

 

[Carlos269]

Videos can mask in-room distortions.

Al, for someone who doesn’t have the courage to share videos of your system with the group, you sure like to present yourself as knowledgeable when it comes to videos. I can now see why you might be scared to make videos of your system. What is this in-room distortion that you are experiencing? Please provide some details and I will help you sort it out.

You keep bring up in-room distortion so it has now become obvious that your set up is suffering from it because no one else is concerned about this as an issue. Or are you just brainstorming of all the possibilities of why these videos couldn’t possibly sound this good in-the-room?

Trying to see what point you are trying to make here as you are coming across as jilted person who has come to the realization that their system just doesn’t sound that good, when you listen to these videos of world class systems, yes even through YouTube.

I’m, and I’m sure other here, can help you, you just need to come clean with your in-room distortion problems that you are experiencing.

For someone who is scared to post videos of your system for others to judge, you sure always have a lot to say about videos. If you think that these videos sound great just imagine how much better it sounds in the room. Kind of gives you something to shoot for, in your dreams.

 

[wil]

hopkins, Brad,

Why futz with headphones? Why not just plug the iPhone into a line level input on the big stereo? (Maybe it's my imagination but I feel like people are oddly resistant to do what seems to me to be a very obvious way to improve videos of audio comparison quality and learn more from the videos: replaying the recorded music from the video back on our own big stereo systems.)

I’ve only skimmed most of this thread so I may have missed it if this has been discussed:

In addition to sharing videos as a way to compare the same recording in different systems/rooms, are you guys also using these recordings as a way to a/b compare changes in your own system?

On first thought, this seems foolish for obvious reasons.

On second thought, I wonder if a video recording could offer a valuable, more detached, perspective particularly when there is a lengthy time gap between changing out one component to another. I can imagine the immediate a/b video comparison might be revealing and cut through the haze of the sometimes unreliable audio memory?

 

[Carlos269]

I should cut Al a break, after all he has a modest system. Where are the videos from the owners of the Wadaxs, from those with the acoustically engineered rooms, from others who have had their systems set up by hired professionals, and from those who think that they have a world class system? Are these systems just world class at the bottom of their post, in the signature section? Or do these individuals lack the courage to let it all bare for others to judge? Just wondering why there is no participation, with video submissions, from others on this forum who like to come across as if they have something special and who are always talking about and parading their latest and greatest toys. It’s kind of like having a super sport car in the garage and taking pictures and showing it off online but lacking the courage to take it out to the track or to the drag strip to find out how it really performs compared to what else is out there. Time to take their pride in their signature line and put it to the test don’t you think? Surely all these owners of supposedly great systems cannot all lack the courage to be judged by others can they?

 

[Ron Resnick]

The video David made of Tang’s speakers before he shipped them sounds very different from your video. To me the differences are not so much about tonal balance, but rather about subtle information resulting in nuance and emotion.

I agree. What I hear in the room and what I hear on my video recording is significantly brighter sounding, with more sibilance, than the video David made of Tang's speakers before he shipped them.

Interestingly I do hear the difference as mostly about tonal balance. Secondarily I hear a difference in resolution.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Again I commend you for taking the time and making the effort to share these videos of your system. I know you are a video skeptic and that you are doing it only for your audience. I respect that.

Thank you! I appreciate the kind words and encouragement!

I am learning something about videos, and about microphones, along the way. If people find the videos interesting, I am happy to oblige. And where I am recording videos on my own system and in my own room and with the same track and with only one variable changing, then that is the circumstance in which even I consider videos to have merit.

Now that with the MV88+ I feel my videos are beginning to be representative of the resolution (but not the tonal balance) I hear in the room I am warming up to videos for certain purposes.

On the other hand, candidly, the (as far as I'm concerned now proven) comparative warmth, softness and gauziness of the iPhone mic is causing me to take an even dimmer view of iPhone mic video recordings.*

(How much of the warmer, richer, less sibilant presentation of "Eleanor Rigby" on Tang's speakers at David's was due to the iPhone mic? To the difference in pressing?)

*Now I'm thinking that if a system sounds bright on an iPhone mic, yowzer!

 

[hopkins]

I agree. What I hear in the room and what I hear on my video recording is significantly brighter sounding, with more sibilance, than the video David made of Tang's speakers before he shipped them.

Interestingly I do hear the difference as mostly about tonal balance. Secondarily I hear a difference in resolution.

Would you mind posting a link to the other versions of that track? I would be curious to hear them. Thanks.

 

[wil]

Videos can mask in-room distortions.

I think this a legitimate question (not an accusation). An equally legitimate question could be do videos actually reveal, or even exaggerate, in room distortions?

 

[PeterA]

Thank you! I appreciate the kind words! I am learning something about videos, and about microphones, along the way. If people find the videos interesting, I am happy to oblige. And where I am recording videos in my own system in my own room with only one variable changing, then that is the circumstance in which even I consider videos to have merit.

Now that with the MV88+ I feel my videos are beginning to be representative of the resolution (but not the tonal balance) I hear in the room I am warming up to videos for certain purposes.

On the other hand, candidly, the (as far as I'm concerned now proven) comparative warmth, softness and gauziness of the iPhone mic is causing me to take an even dimmer view of iPhone mic video recordings.*

(How much of the warmer, richer, less sibilant presentation of "Eleanor Rigby" on Tang's speakers at David's was due to the iPhone mic? To the difference in pressing?)

*Now I'm thinking that if a system sounds bright on an iPhone mic, yowzer!

You have more experience with comparing mics. I find that my public iPhone videos are a pretty good representation of what I hear in my room. Of course, not the same but close enough for a good impression. They don’t sound warmer, softer, or gauzier to me when comparing. That Eurodyn video is the best I’ve heard. It is about the sheer information coming out of that system and captured in that video. Information that is not lost in the room or gear.