upgrade parasound JC1 to boulder 1060 or Lamm M2.2?

[taoh2]

I want to upgrade my system, start with the power amp

I currently has JC1, plan to boulder or Lamm M2.2, or maybe Ayre gear, what is your suggestion.

my pre-amp is conrad jonson ACT2 series 2, speaker is harbeth M40, source is ps audio direct-stream

thanks

 

[LL21]

Great system and great choices...i cannot say much here, though i am a big fan of CJ. Personally, if i thought i needed purity and sheer drive, i would go for Boulder 2-series or Gryphon...i have not heard their 1060. I have heard great things about the Lamm 2.2. Given your pre/amp and speakers, for myself, i would be tempted to hear Boulder or Gryphon. Next up, Lamm. Good luck and hope to hear how it goes.

 

[Steve Williams]

I want to upgrade my system, start with the power amp

I currently has JC1, plan to boulder or Lamm M2.2, or maybe Ayre gear, what is your suggestion.

my pre-amp is conrad jonson ACT2 series 2, speaker is harbeth M40, source is ps audio direct-stream

thanks

Hi Tao

Welcome to WBF

Glad we spoke earlier and you took the time to join. I know you will get some very valid opinions here and I knew Lloyd would offer suggestions

 

[caesar]

Personally, I would take a hybrid of the 2: I would take the Boulder power and thus ability to have complete control over your speaker, less its "clean" sound, and I would take the humanness of the Lamm designs.

You really got to buy both, try them out in your system, and sell what you don't like.

 

[JackD201]

I've used M2.2s in my personal system for many years now. I think if you go with them that you will love their flexibility. Off the bat they can be configured for two operating point ranges for low and high impedance speakers. If like me you have "tweener" speakers (6ohms nominal) you can switch between the low and high points. It's like having two amps in one. Then of course there is the option of tube rolling from the ruler flat voicing with the stock tubes to anything else that might tickle your fancy. I've used stock, Telefunken CCa Red Tips, Siemens CCa, Valvos, Amperex, again like having many, many different amps for the price of one. These amps also handle very difficult loads if you provide them with dedicated lines to allow it to access its full potential. It was considered extremely expensive at launch but price increases have been slight over the years. With prices today, one could say they are a bargain. It is the unsung hero of the Lamm family. The negligibly more expensive M1.2 Reference has garnered all the awards the difference between the two however is slight and can be made up with with a bit of effort.

 

[LL21]

Personally, I would take a hybrid of the 2: I would take the Boulder power and thus ability to have complete control over your speaker, less its "clean" sound, and I would take the humanness of the Lamm designs.

Interestingly, that is how i would describe Gryphon. To me, i found it had an intensity of sweetness/humanness that i preferred over the Boulder.

I was beguiled by much of the control, power, linearity, etc of the mighty Boulder 2060...but i could see why some (not me) might say it also came across as quite 'clean'. NOTE: i did NOT feel that way, but i did at least appreciate that i could see why some might feel otherwise.

The Gryphon on the other hand provides same/comparable graceful authority, linearity, extension, detail...yet somehow a 'touch' of sweetness during intense violin attacks, etc which i really, really enjoy...and to me completely avoids any notion of that 'Boulder clean'. Is Gryphon 'right'? Heck if i know...all i do know is i enjoy more music on Gryphon than anything i've heard before.

I am sure with a few tweaks to my system here and there, it would sing beautifully with the mighty Boulder...i am just fortunate that i dont have to because the Gryphon is just how i enjoy my music.

 

[rhyno]

it was hard for me to get the 1060 to sound good unless it was on 24/7---it needs to be HOT to sound good; if you cannot leave it on, it will never sound at its potential. LAMM at class A will within 30min. FWIW. as will your JC1s (hi bias state)

 

[LL21]

interesting to know. Thanks, Rhyno.

 

[taoh2]

boulder 1060 is out of my list now

how about the dartzeel 108B? I got many great feedback on it.

thanks

tao

 

[caesar]

Interestingly, that is how i would describe Gryphon. To me, i found it had an intensity of sweetness/humanness that i preferred over the Boulder.

I was beguiled by much of the control, power, linearity, etc of the mighty Boulder 2060...but i could see why some (not me) might say it also came across as quite 'clean'. NOTE: i did NOT feel that way, but i did at least appreciate that i could see why some might feel otherwise.

The Gryphon on the other hand provides same/comparable graceful authority, linearity, extension, detail...yet somehow a 'touch' of sweetness during intense violin attacks, etc which i really, really enjoy...and to me completely avoids any notion of that 'Boulder clean'. Is Gryphon 'right'? Heck if i know...all i do know is i enjoy more music on Gryphon than anything i've heard before.

I am sure with a few tweaks to my system here and there, it would sing beautifully with the mighty Boulder...i am just fortunate that i dont have to because the Gryphon is just how i enjoy my music.

LL,

Is Gryphon all Class A?

 

[LL21]

LL,

Is Gryphon all Class A?

Yes, the Gryphon 'ethos' is pure Class A for its main amps (not necessarily their integrateds...but certainly all their amps). So at 8ohms, my Gryphon Colosseum is Class A to 160 watts per channel.

 

[caesar]

boulder 1060 is out of my list now

how about the dartzeel 108B? I got many great feedback on it.

thanks

tao

Again, you have to hear it on your speakers, which I don't know much about, but may be tough to drive. Dartzeel is sublime, but for my speaker and musical tastes, doesn't have enough power to grip the speaker to make the music sound like music.

 

[LL21]

Again, you have to hear it on your speakers, which I don't know much about, but may be tough to drive. Dartzeel is sublime, but for my speaker and musical tastes, doesn't have enough power to grip the speaker to make the music sound like music.

I have read that Maggies benefit from high current...true? I wonder then if Dartzeel 108s would be up for this....i have read a few people felt the Dartzeel was not ideal with Wilson Sashas due to their 2ohm impedance at certain frequencies (and potentially lower i think Martin Colloms wrote).

 

[caesar]

I have read that Maggies benefit from high current...true? I wonder then if Dartzeel 108s would be up for this....i have read a few people felt the Dartzeel was not ideal with Wilson Sashas due to their 2ohm impedance at certain frequencies (and potentially lower i think Martin Colloms wrote).

I think sanders is about voltage, not current. they cant drive an mbl, unfortunately.

 

[caesar]

Tao,

In the end, finding the right amps is about fcuking up your back, cutting up your hands, and smashing your toes - as you hall them around and stick them in your system...

Have you considered high powered tube amps, such as vtl 750/ wotan, arc 6?0 reference, CAT, etc.? all can be had for $10k, or possibly less, and will deliver more humanness than SS , along with power.

 

[LL21]

I think sanders is about voltage, not current. they cant drive an mbl, unfortunately.

do you think then that NEITHER the Sanders nor the Shindos might be ideal partners for Maggies if Maggies require high current? I am only asking...not seeking any controversy here whatsoever...just curious to learn more. I am a gi-normous admirer of Maggies since the '90s but have not studied them much.

 

[caesar]

do you think then that NEITHER the Sanders nor the Shindos might be ideal partners for Maggies if Maggies require high current? I am only asking...not seeking any controversy here whatsoever...just curious to learn more. I am a gi-normous admirer of Maggies since the '90s but have not studied them much.

LL,

I am not suggesting that at all. I just find it very interesting mating 2 completely different philosophies: pure golden ear approach of Shindo and pure engineering approach of Sanders on one of the best speakers in the world. As you know it's all personal taste and synergy. And I'm just curious about the experience.

 

[joeinid]

taoh2,

Are you able to demo any of the amps you are thinking about buying? Do you plan on ordering whatever you decide on buying, unheard? Without experiencing any of the amps, it may be difficult to make a decision.

 

[LL21]

LL,

I am not suggesting that at all. I just find it very interesting mating 2 completely different philosophies: pure golden ear approach of Shindo and pure engineering approach of Sanders on one of the best speakers in the world. As you know it's all personal taste and synergy. And I'm just curious about the experience.

Got it...that's you and me both then...just curious.

 

[Jazzhead]

I've used M2.2s in my personal system for many years now. I think if you go with them that you will love their flexibility. Off the bat they can be configured for two operating point ranges for low and high impedance speakers. If like me you have "tweener" speakers (6ohms nominal) you can switch between the low and high points. It's like having two amps in one. Then of course there is the option of tube rolling from the ruler flat voicing with the stock tubes to anything else that might tickle your fancy. I've used stock, Telefunken CCa Red Tips, Siemens CCa, Valvos, Amperex, again like having many, many different amps for the price of one. These amps also handle very difficult loads if you provide them with dedicated lines to allow it to access its full potential. It was considered extremely expensive at launch but price increases have been slight over the years. With prices today, one could say they are a bargain. It is the unsung hero of the Lamm family. The negligibly more expensive M1.2 Reference has garnered all the awards the difference between the two however is slight and can be made up with with a bit of effort.

Do you prefer the M2.2 over the M1.2 , or only if in the case where the speakers are a tough load ?