The more you spend on gear, the more you lose touch with the music!

[Johnny Vinyl]

I believe this to be an accurate observation that applies to many audiophiles, but obviously not all. I honestly believe that many have lost the ability to immerse themselves into the music, and are instead focused more on the sound (detail, depth, scale, accuracy, etc.) which their system portrays. When they say that a particular recording is the ultimate, are they referring to the music or the sound? Yes, sometimes (many times perhaps) it's both. My guess it that music is only secondary and system performance is the driving theme behind their claim. I'm not saying that I am completely immune to this myself, as surely I'm not, but when I sit down for a session it is because I want to hear the artists and their creations. I would say this is 95% of the time. The only time I don't is when I've added or changed something (gear, tweaks, room changes, etc.) and I want to identify the result of that. I then make the appropriate changes (if any or if needed) and I'm done with it.

Am I off my rocker or is there some validity behind my observation?

 

[Ronm1]

the ability to immerse themselves into the music, and are instead focused more on the sound ( detail, depth, scale, accuracy, etc) which their system portrays. When they say that a particular recording is the ultimate, are they referring to the music or the sound?

I certainly enjoy music that's not perfectly repro'd whatever that means. The stats you state are important in the long run but for me it's noise, in any form. Source media , h/w, room. One can certainly appreciate performances for what they are, but if I'm to get lost in the music. Noise is the enemy, noise is the mind killer. To truly be immersed I need music to come from blackness. That is my pet peeve and I suspect it will never change.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I certainly enjoy music that's not perfectly repro'd whatever that means. The stats you state are important in the long run but for me it's noise, in any form. Source media , h/w, room. One can certainly appreciate performances for what they are, but if I'm to get lost in the music. Noise is the enemy, noise is the mind killer.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly, but I suspect this is not an issue for most here.

 

[slowGEEZR]

Sorry Johnny, but I disagree. I get into the music even more than I did with a modest system.

 

[ddk]

I believe this to be an accurate observation that applies to many audiophiles, but obviously not all. I honestly believe that many have lost the ability to immerse themselves into the music, and are instead focused more on the sound (detail, depth, scale, accuracy, etc.) which their system portrays. When they say that a particular recording is the ultimate, are they referring to the music or the sound? Yes, sometimes (many times perhaps) it's both. My guess it that music is only secondary and system performance is the driving theme behind their claim. I'm not saying that I am completely immune to this myself, as surely I'm not, but when I sit down for a session it is because I want to hear the artists and their creations. I would say this is 95% of the time. The only time I don't is when I've added or changed something (gear, tweaks, room changes, etc.) and I want to identify the result of that. I then make the appropriate changes (if any or if needed) and I'm done with it.

Am I off my rocker or is there some validity behind my observation?

This can make an interesting poll Johnny, not necessarily the spending part because I don't see a direct correlation but the gear obsession. Certainly I'm guilty of it myself but what I found is that when the system is right, i.e. natural and musical I tend to listen for hours on end and forget about it all. Gear obsession and tweaking starts when the system is in the way of the music or its suddenly so impressive that it competes with it. There's certainly a learning curve when you start moving up from the one box solution, not everything works as advertised; but what does in life? You have to experience and learn from the mistakes...

david

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

The question is harder than it seems and will elicit some debates here ...

There is the case of many audiophiles having lost sight of Music and rather are into gear or more often a format .. Music must be delivered on a given format else it is not "listenable" or even worth their listening time... We have some here that have said that ... Extreme of course but we do have such cases.

We audiophiles are interested in the way things sound . We are all vested very much in our gears and try at times lamely to rationalize our purchases by telling ourselves and other that it gets us closer to the music... I would say that our leanings do also push some music away too..

I don't think it is a matter of level of investment or worth of the gears. the issue is rather that of the pursuit of the sound for the sound rather than the music. Noting wrong with that in essence but there is a good amount of posturing that goes in to that when some claims int is the music when in reality it is the gears

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Glad to hear that Steve! I myself am of the same mind. After all, it's the music that has given us the drive to pursue better ways of enjoying it, so we need to never let that fade.

 

[Al M.]

Hi

The question is harder than it seems and will elicit some debates here ...

There is the case of many audiophiles having lost sight of Music and rather are into gear or more often a format .. Music must be delivered on a given format else it is not "listenable" or even worth their listening time... We have some here that have said that ... Extreme of course but we do have such cases.

We audiophiles are interested in the way things sound . We are all vested very much in our gears and try at times lamely to rationalize our purchases by telling ourselves and other that it gets us closer to the music... I would say that our leanings do also push some music away too..

I don't think it is a matter of level of investment or worth of the gears. the issue is rather that of the pursuit of the sound for the sound rather than the music. Noting wrong with that in essence but there is a good amount of posturing that goes in to that when some claims int is the music when in reality it is the gears

Very good post, Frantz. Very good OP also, Johnny.

I consider myself a music lover first and an audiophile second, and I don't chase for formats. I am content with the format where all the music is that I want to listen to, which is ordinary 16/44 CD, and I try to optimize its playback.

Yet even I have been guilty at times of being obsessed with sound rather than music, when something in my system did not satisfy me and I was searching for a solution, with acoustics or gear. Also, when I got a new piece of equipment that did satisfy me, I was initially obsessed with trying out how all the usual records sounded. Yet now fortunately I am in a happy place again where I can concentrate just listening to music, which is what it should be all about. I know that there are things I could easily change or experiment with, also urged by others, but right now I am too lazy to do it, and I just want to immerse in music.

I will say though that once you have a great sounding system that does satisfy you, it can indeed bring you much closer to the music than a mediocre one; here I agree with slowGEEZR. That is the case with me right now -- the intellectually detailed and emotionally visceral immersion into music that is now possible for me would have been unthinkable on a typical stereo. For starters, my system is far more capable of unraveling polyphonic textures in music so that I can much more easily follow each strand simultaneously. And that is just one thing.

I do share the suspicion though that there are a number of audiophiles who completely have lost the ability to enjoy music in their futile obsession with the 'perfect sound'. It's the ultimate perversion of a hobby.

 

[LL21]

This can make an interesting poll Johnny, not necessarily the spending part because I don't see a direct correlation but the gear obsession. Certainly I'm guilty of it myself but what I found is that when the system is right, i.e. natural and musical I tend to listen for hours on end and forget about it all. Gear obsession and tweaking starts when the system is in the way of the music or its suddenly so impressive that it competes with it. There's certainly a learning curve when you start moving up from the one box solution, not everything works as advertised; but what does in life? You have to experience and learn from the mistakes...

david

+1. I admit to having spent/"invested" a lot of time and money into my system, even if it is nearly all second hand and hunted down over literally years.

But at the same time, before this most recent evolution of my system, my music collection for YEARS was around 500-600 CDs...once my system started being able to play complex music, deep bass and orchestral really well (and other music as well)...my music collection EXPLODED, and now we are close to 2,000CDs. And the system plays all the time.

And despite having made some fantastic leaps and bounds in isolation/grounding starting 2 years ago...nothing much has changed in this system for nearly a year now. And other than an occasional thought of a big Genesis or the mighty Rockport Arrakis...i do not have any further thoughts about equipment.

Because we are looking at reconfiguring and my Sub is on its 2nd repair...i am looking to upgrade it to the latest DD18+, and because the speaker cables need to be longer, i may do a 2nd hand upgrade to Opus MM2 if i can swing it. But if not for the reconfigure, i would be perfectly happy to keep the system as is and just listen to music hour after hour in the early mornings and late at nite.

And i am absolutely confident that a good reason for this is because the system 'brings me there' more than it has ever done before. So i get to enjoy both music and system at the same time...a double whammy of pure fun.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

All of us are gear heads on some level, or we wouldn't be here. That doesn't necessarily mean the gear, or even the sound is more important than the music, but you can answer that question pretty simply - Where is the majority of your money spent? What do you spend the most time thinking about?

There's your answer.

Tim

 

[bonzo75]

I average 1 concert a week to 10 days. Going to Bruch's violin concerto tomorrow. I keep that hobby separate from Hifi.

I categorize these hobbies into 1. music, 2. auditioning, and 3. building your own system. There are some overlaps.

One person can do more of one than the other. Anyone who is only into music should be on the Gramophone records forum, this forum is for hifi gear OCDed enthusiasts, irrespective of whether they are into music or not, who want to either measure or do A vs B and who prefer to relax on forums. Has some overlaps with music, degree varies person to person.

 

[TheMadMilkman]

"Look at that guy, never buying new music. He obviously doesn't love music, because he never listens to anything new."

"Look at that guy, always buying new music. He obviously doesn't love music, because he never takes the time to really know and understand an album."

I know this isn't exactly what you were getting at, but I think it makes the illustration nicely. It's easy to denigrate others based on whatever position we currently hold.

Is the music lover really morally superior to the gear head? Or do we believe that he is solely because we perceive ourselves as music lovers, and therefore being the music lover is obviously the superior position?

 

[spiritofmusic]

There's no doubt it can be very easy to get caught up in the "thrill of the chase", and I have done so in the past. But actually every upgrade I make now has to satisfy me holistically, and not just tick the usual boxes on the Audiophile's Checklist. And that for me means enhancing tone, both naturalness and density, so I get that 0.1% closer to reality. So when a skeptical member on this board visits me and complains my system doesn't image correctly or is not overly transparent, or has weak bass, I smile benignly since I feel my tone is getting me there, and is the result of money well spent.
Hence I do feel I spend in service of the music, not just the gear.

 

[bonzo75]

There's no doubt it can be very easy to get caught up in the "thrill of the chase", and I have done so in the past. But actually every upgrade I make now has to satisfy me holistically, and not just tick the usual boxes on the Audiophile's Checklist. And that for me means enhancing tone, both naturalness and density, so I get that 0.1% closer to reality. So when a skeptical member on this board visits me and complains my system doesn't image correctly or is not overly transparent, or has weak bass, I smile benignly since I feel my tone is getting me there, and is the result of money well spent.
Hence I do feel I spend in service of the music, not just the gear.

I know, which is why you keep upgrading components. The 10k cables are now going up to what, and further grounding is being added, then the pre is being upgraded, not to mention you already changed the pre and the power in the last few months, the pre being one you had a changed just a few months before, after having had a one balanced power transformer, than a Burmester conditioner, then again a Balanced PT, then US sockets, because, of course, you are a music lover first.

 

[slowGEEZR]

Glad to hear that Steve! I myself am of the same mind. After all, it's the music that has given us the drive to pursue better ways of enjoying it, so we need to never let that fade.

Abso fricken lutely!

 

[spiritofmusic]

I am a music lover first, and sarcastic second. For other people, this order can be reversed of course.
Don't forget to mention that I'm spending money on Mooks and GIK acoustics as well.
As for those that spend a small fortune on air fares visiting systems, and endless hours getting to these demos, when they could be listening to more music, maybe they're an air travel lover rather than a music lover.
Yep, I'm on my third analog front end, my fourth digital, my fourth set of amps, and my fourth pair of speakers. Five changes of cables, third equipment rack, third power product, and jump into the grounding pool.
Recent changes are getting out of the way of the music. Maybe in the past, the gear was the object.
As the person who got me to finally buy GIKs I would hope would understand.

 

[GaryProtein]

I believe this to be an accurate observation that applies to many audiophiles, but obviously not all. I honestly believe that many have lost the ability to immerse themselves into the music, and are instead focused more on the sound (detail, depth, scale, accuracy, etc.) which their system portrays. When they say that a particular recording is the ultimate, are they referring to the music or the sound? Yes, sometimes (many times perhaps) it's both. My guess it that music is only secondary and system performance is the driving theme behind their claim. I'm not saying that I am completely immune to this myself, as surely I'm not, but when I sit down for a session it is because I want to hear the artists and their creations. I would say this is 95% of the time. The only time I don't is when I've added or changed something (gear, tweaks, room changes, etc.) and I want to identify the result of that. I then make the appropriate changes (if any or if needed) and I'm done with it.

Am I off my rocker or is there some validity behind my observation?

I don't think it's how much you spend as it is how often you change equipment and how much time you spent changing your equipment and playing with the room.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

my wife is upset with me because I've allowed the yard to get a little edgy since i'm always listening lately.....the last 3-4 months or so.

god knows I've spent a lot on gear, as much as anyone I suppose. but I've been past the gear acquisition stage of things for a few years. and into the system enjoyment stage, and i'm listening all the time. 25-30 plus hours a week. i'd say the only thing that slows me down on listening is when one of my sports teams is doing really well; like the Seahawks these last few years. or; like in July I do watch the Tour de France a lot.

otherwise; i'm always listening.

there are some who are in the 'gear churning' period of their audiophile pathway; maybe those guys don't listen as much. but maybe they listen just as much.

so based on my experience I don't think you can draw any inference that the spend inhibits listening. i'd say that's more 'envy' talking than anything factual.

 

[NorthStar]

All the money you spent; your friends they all think you're crazy.
All the time you spent; your wives they all think they married the wrong guy.

* AAA (Addictive Audio Activity)...dangerous for your entourage...and sanity, very.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

All of us are gear heads on some level, or we wouldn't be here. That doesn't necessarily mean the gear, or even the sound is more important than the music, but you can answer that question pretty simply - Where is the majority of your money spent? What do you spend the most time thinking about?

There's your answer.

Tim

a few years ago I ran some numbers on my actual spend of money on music.

it's a number north of $150k over a 20 year period. I've tried hard to just forget about it.

I've spent plenty of money on gear, but money spent on music has also been significant. and just the sheer effort and time it took to acquire the music has been monumental.

trying to infer some sort of 'correct ratio' or 'moral high ground' on spend for music as opposed to gear is just silly.