Tariffs on used audio gear

[adyc]

Obviously that was some sort of mistake. There are no 3900% tariff rates.

The simple explanation is that the custom did not believe the value is $1.

 

[iaxel]

I bought a vintage S2 SME headshell from Japan for ~$125. German DHL said I owed $39 on top of that. That's ~30% though the Japanese tariff is 15%. DHL did not a break down for what they were charging. Perhaps some duty in addition to the tariff? Tariffs are one thing if they are predictable. Shipping cost is crazy.

I do not reside in the US, but I do know that DHL/FedEx/UPS like to add all kinds of fees on top of the standard local government tariffs.

 

[bonzo75]

I heard that margin is specially high for audiophiles at 3900% as they are accustomed to it

 

[tima]

I do not reside in the US, but I do know that DHL/FedEx/UPS like to add all kinds of fees on top of the standard local government tariffs.

Thanks for your report. I have not seen that from Fedex or UPS inside the US. I am unfamiliar with DHL overseas practices.

 

[sbo6]

The obvious effect on the audio business is that the tax increase on US importers of foreign goods-in this case audio equipment-will be price increases to American consumers. Unless there is unusual price elasticity in the demand for these products, the laws of economics dictate that sales of higher tariffed goods will be lower-in fact, that's the point. The merits of these tax increases are in the eye of the beholder, but there is little doubt they will be passed on, in whole or part, to American consumers of imported audio gear. It is certainly true that no one will ever feel sorry for our little group of audio enthusiasts paying higher taxes on a $100k amp. Whether one has that dispassionate view of working folks shopping at the Dollar Store for life's necessities who will be paying more depends on individual sensibilities. Each to their own.

An interesting question is the effect on American exporters of audio gear. I heard some talk at SWAF that international sales of U.S. products was down because international buyers were opting against American equipment due to our tariff policy. This was purely anecdotal, just hallway conversation, and I hope its not true. I live in the heart of bourbon country and I know for a fact that the bourbon industry is being badly hurt by falling international sales-a backlash from our tariff policy. Several smaller distillers are already in insolvency. While I'm doing my part to support the industry, I can't make up for the entire province of Ontario. Hopefully, this will be temporary and the market for this important product (important to the thousands of Kentuckians who work in the industry) will stabilize. I agree with treitz3, the merits of the policy are a matter of opinion and beyond the scope of this forum. The immediate effects on the audio business, however, seem pretty obvious.

FWIW I am fine discussing tangentially related topics, the more one can learn, the better and equally important - that's how conversations flow (plus it costs nothing extra ;-) ).

Specific to your comments - You're right that tariffs can be used to dissuade purchases from foreign countries, but they can also be used (and I'd argue their original intent) is to increase import countries' income. Used judiciously they can help balance the system, if you will. Political comment removed.

 

[XCop5089]

I bought a vintage S2 SME headshell from Japan for ~$125. German DHL said I owed $39 on top of that. That's ~30% though the Japanese tariff is 15%. DHL did not a break down for what they were charging. Perhaps some duty in addition to the tariff? Tariffs are one thing if they are predictable. Shipping cost is crazy.

Tima

I am a UK resident and recently purchased a boxed set of vinyl records from a French online source.

On a purchase totalling just over £160 GBP (including shipping), DHL sent me a bill for £32.61 VAT (20%) and something called "Duty Tax Receiver" an additional £11 GBP, making a total import charge of £43.61 GBP on top of my purchase!

 

[sbnx]

The amount of Tariff owed can be confusing. For example, suppose something is being imported from Japan that costs $1000. The current tariff rate is 15%. So you would expect to owe $150. However, tariff's on Aluminum and Steel are separate. Also, there is a pass-through tariff if part of the product was made in China (for example). So if what you are importing contains Aluminum (highly likely) then there will be an additional tariff of 50% of the Aluminum portion of the product. (This gets sticky as how is customs to determine how much aluminum is present. You might get slapped with a 50% tariff on the whole item). When imported, customs will ask you to fill out a form with documentation on the "origin of smelt". So if the aluminum (or steel) was smelted and machined in China then there will likely be more tariff.

If you are looking to purchase a product from overseas and import it yourself then I encourage you to at least ask ChatGPT what it thinks you will owe in tariff based on the description you give it.

All of this, in one way or another, is passed on to the American consumer. The billions of dollars raised by the US Govenment was paid by American importers and eventually the consumer. Of course, this is done to discourage consumers from buying imports and instead buying products produced in the US.

 

[djsina2]

I don’t think that is happening to that granular of a level for one-off consumer purchases. It seems totally non-scalable. I just imported ~75 lbs worth of metal from Japan and there were no questions like that. Straight 15% tariff.

 

[sbnx]

What kind of metal did you import? Aluminum, Steel or something else?

 

[djsina2]

What kind of metal did you import? Aluminum, Steel or something else?

Steel and Super Permalloy. There were no questions from customs on what it was made out of. Boxes were not opened up for inspection. I’ve imported a lot over the past 8 years and this process was no different other than the fee being 15% whereas it was something like 2.5% before.

 

[PYP]

I would assume that if inflation becomes widespread (not a certainty), then used gear will end up costing more too.

Inflation appears to be increasing. From bankrate.com:

"Consumer prices rose 0.2 percent between June and July, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS)’ latest monthly consumer price index (CPI) report. Excluding food and energy, a measure of “core” or “underlying” inflation rose 0.3 percent, the most since January. Many items currently exposed to tariffs — from coffee and tomatoes to toys, sporting equipment, household furnishings and apparel — continued to climb. Used cars and trucks rose the most since September 2022." What, no mention of audio gear (LOL)?

Economists generally agree that an import tax will cause inflation. The duration of that inflation is not agreed upon.

But think about a small audio manufacturer trying to price gear that they are developing. The import tax by country vary a lot: Japan = 15%; Canada = 35%; China (soon) = 30%. That, for example, would differently affect the cost of (for example) chassis, transformers and electrical components. All of these rates were quite different in April. If the development period spanned that time, it gets tricky. If your margins are modest, it can get painful unless you pass the cost onto the customer.

 

[PeterA]

I wonder how many more Magico and Wilson speakers and Pass and Macintosh amps there would be sold around the world if these US made goods did not face tariffs or import duties or VAT taxes. Sometimes the Audio playing field gets rebalanced.

 

[hopkins]

I wonder how many more Magico and Wilson speakers and Pass and Macintosh amps there would be sold around the world if these US made goods did not face tariffs or import duties or VAT taxes. Sometimes the Audio playing field gets rebalanced.

VAT applies, at least here in the EU, equally on locally manufactured or imported goods. There are no additional tariffs for US imports. The idea that the recent 15% tariffs are “leveling the playing field” is simply wrong. There are of course exchange rate issues as well, but the EU/US trade imbalance is in fact very small when you take into account both goods and services (which the current administration glossed over).

When it comes to high-end audio gear, service is probably just as important, if not more, than price.

 

[microstrip]

(...) Discussing how tariffs affect used audio is okay, as this directly effects our hobby. So long as the conversations do not involve politics.

Tom

Facts are not politics, I will explain how thing work in most European countries. VAT ( 23% in my country for audio gear) ) is a global tax on consumption that is applied on all audio goods even if they are manufactured in the country. I always paid VAT on audio goods coming in the country if they have not yet paid VAT in the European community. No way it can be considered a customs tariff. The customs tariff on audio was around 2%.

We should not mix handling charges with taxes or tariffs - as they are usually a fixed amount they can represent a large percentage in small orders.

 

[PYP]

Facts are not politics, I will explain how thing work in most European countries. VAT ( 23% in my country for audio gear) ) is a global tax on consumption that is applied on all audio goods even if they are manufactured in the country.

I didn't realize that. Do all European countries charge VAT for items manufactured in their own country?

 

[microstrip]

I didn't realize that. Do all European countries charge VAT for items manufactured in their own country?

Surely. Even french people pay VAT on their wine ...

Only a very few products and services are exempt of VAT.

 

[PYP]

Surely. Even french people pay VAT on their wine ...

Only a very few products and services are exempt of VAT.

one would think that removing the VAT on wine would be VERY popular (sorry if read as political statement).

 

[fbhifi]

VAT is an acronym for “Value Added Tax.”

I fail to see where any value is added to justify said tax. It’s plain and simple a money grab.

 

[sbo6]

Re: Jeff's comments - From your point of view. Others may share a different view. Getting on the merits of whether the tariffs are good or bad is a completely different topic that does not belong on this board. There are plenty of other avenues available out there to discuss your views, if you so choose. We will not be debating this here, as this is political discourse and against the TOS of the WBF.

Discussing how tariffs affect used audio is okay, as this directly effects our hobby. So long as the conversations do not involve politics.

Tom

Why is there such a narrow scope on the topic? I created the post and would like to hear all comments not filtered.

What exactly is the downside if all is kept civil? I made a political comment included in one of my earlier posts that got scrubbed, why? It was completely factual.

 

[treitz3]

Please read the Terms of Service of the forum. Political commentary is not allowed, factual or not. Every member of the forum agreed to this prior to joining. If you or any other member wants to talk politics, do it elsewhere, as it will not be tolerated here.

We are showing a little bit of latitude here, but some things that have been deleted have crossed that threshold into political statements. Our decisions are not up for public debate.

Tom