Stillpoints Ultra Vs - Wilson X1/Grand Slamms

[Bill Hart]

The only thing that Davey postulated was that adding weight on top of a sub cabinet was good for dampening. VPI made "Magic Bricks" which used to claim some special properties for dissipating magnetic energy when placed on power and output transformers of tube amps. Stillpoints were designed to couple two surfaces together. If you don't use them as a coupler, I don't see how in the world they would have any more benefit sitting on top of a sub cabinet than some small dumbbell plates would. Maybe I'm missing something here because I don't get it.

I think the one side that is facing the equipment cabinet is doing its job, in much the same was the LP Isolator is promoted by the manufacturer for 'off label' use as a mass damping device. You are correct that the top of the Ultra is not 'coupling'decoupling' anything and that it is an expensive way to go.
BTW, I still have 3 Magic Bricks from 'ye olde days.' I stub my toe on them sometimes. They are heavy.

 

[allvinyl]

Mep, I'm surprised no one has answered you yet~ I have the LP isolator, which is an adaptation of the Ultra 5. The short answer is, I think, twofold: first, mass, and second, the LP isolator (and the Ultra 5 as far as I know) have these isolated 'pads' that are connected to the decoupling system embedded into the devices. They function in some way to absorb and neutralize vibration. I'm sure someone else can provide a more scientific explanation, but that's the gist of it as far as I understand it.

The LPI and Ultra 5 have the same 5 pockets of technology within. When an Ultra 5 is placed under a speaker or component it is the weight of the speaker/component that 'loads' the technology pockets allowing Ultra 5 to isolate as intended. When an Ultra 5 or LPI is placed on the chassis of a component the weight of the stainless itself accomplishes the 'loading'.

If you were to separate the 2 halves of the Ultra 5 you would see the technology pockets as you can see them on the bottom of the LPI. Our experience tells us the closer the technology is to the component being isolated the better the performance. Just as the LPI has the ability to capture the vibration in a spinning LP, it will do the same when placed on a component. The Ultra 5 will function the same way with the caveat that the component and isolating technology can be separated by the extra piece of stainless steel, depending on the orientation of the Ultra 5(which half is placed directly on the component). I would be interested to learn what Lloyd hears if he replaces the 3 - Ultra 5 on the sub with 3 - LPI.

When placing a LPI on a transport I always suggest to start by placing it on the chassis directly over the mechanism. Experiment with placement. Our experience tells us there can be a "sweet spot" on component and transport chassis optimizing performance. I have found this true on my own preamp and amplifier.

Hope this helps...

 

[LL21]

The LPI and Ultra 5 have the same 5 pockets of technology within. When an Ultra 5 is placed under a speaker or component it is the weight of the speaker/component that 'loads' the technology pockets allowing Ultra 5 to isolate as intended. When an Ultra 5 or LPI is placed on the chassis of a component the weight of the stainless itself accomplishes the 'loading'.

If you were to separate the 2 halves of the Ultra 5 you would see the technology pockets as you can see them on the bottom of the LPI. Our experience tells us the closer the technology is to the component being isolated the better the performance. Just as the LPI has the ability to capture the vibration in a spinning LP, it will do the same when placed on a component. The Ultra 5 will function the same way with the caveat that the component and isolating technology can be separated by the extra piece of stainless steel, depending on the orientation of the Ultra 5(which half is placed directly on the component). I would be interested to learn what Lloyd hears if he replaces the 3 - Ultra 5 on the sub with 3 - LPI.

When placing a LPI on a transport I always suggest to start by placing it on the chassis directly over the mechanism. Experiment with placement. Our experience tells us there can be a "sweet spot" on component and transport chassis optimizing performance. I have found this true on my own preamp and amplifier.

Hope this helps...

Thanks!!! Yes, that does help. I have not got 3 LPIs to replace the 3 Ultra Vs...after getting the 3 Ultra 5s for my sub...i kept them...i also got one more (too addictive!) for my CJ GAT. so now i have promised myself not to let anymore in the house!

I will say that my own experience on placement absolutely concurs with your advice...various places on the transport had very different results. and yes, as close to top of mechanism itself does seem best.

 

[Bill Hart]

The LPI and Ultra 5 have the same 5 pockets of technology within. When an Ultra 5 is placed under a speaker or component it is the weight of the speaker/component that 'loads' the technology pockets allowing Ultra 5 to isolate as intended. When an Ultra 5 or LPI is placed on the chassis of a component the weight of the stainless itself accomplishes the 'loading'.

If you were to separate the 2 halves of the Ultra 5 you would see the technology pockets as you can see them on the bottom of the LPI. Our experience tells us the closer the technology is to the component being isolated the better the performance. Just as the LPI has the ability to capture the vibration in a spinning LP, it will do the same when placed on a component. The Ultra 5 will function the same way with the caveat that the component and isolating technology can be separated by the extra piece of stainless steel, depending on the orientation of the Ultra 5(which half is placed directly on the component). I would be interested to learn what Lloyd hears if he replaces the 3 - Ultra 5 on the sub with 3 - LPI.

When placing a LPI on a transport I always suggest to start by placing it on the chassis directly over the mechanism. Experiment with placement. Our experience tells us there can be a "sweet spot" on component and transport chassis optimizing performance. I have found this true on my own preamp and amplifier.

Hope this helps...

AllVinyl: Are you Paul from Stillpoints? If so, you were helpful to me in phone discussions when I first bought the Ultra SS and LP1.
Even if you aren't Paul, your posting was helpful.
Thanks.

 

[allvinyl]

The Ultra 5s are designed to couple something like a speaker to a floor or a component to a shelf. In other words, it's loaded on both sides. When you take 3 of the Ultra 5s and just place them on top of a sub and one end of each Ultra 5 is unloaded, they can't work as they were designed to. All you have down now is set some very expense weight on top of your sub that is now not working as it was designed to. It doesn't make sense to me to take a very expensive device like the Ultra 5 that was designed to couple two surfaces together and leave one end in the breeze and think you are using these devices correctly.

No. All Stillpoints products are designed to isolate from, not couple to.

The technology pockets of the Ultra 5 and LPI are loaded by the product's own weight when placed on a component/speaker/etc. When placed or attached under a component/speaker/etc the weight of the component/speaker/etc loads the technology pockets allowing it to isolate as intended.

 

[allvinyl]

AllVinyl: Are you Paul from Stillpoints? If so, you were helpful to me in phone discussions when I first bought the Ultra SS and LP1.
Even if you aren't Paul, your posting was helpful.
Thanks.

No, John Tverdik, Operations Manager at Stillpoints. Thanks for the kudos... we try to answer any questions and help as much as possible in guiding users of our products.

 

[Steve Williams]

allvinyl, PM sent

 

[LL21]

The LP isolator is designed differently than the Ultra 5s. Having expensive couplers that were designed to be loaded at both ends unloaded at one end and obtaining magic is truly magic.

Hi mep, see below from manufacturer...I think this is the explanation for why ultra 5s work on top of components as well.

The LPI and Ultra 5 have the same 5 pockets of technology within. When an Ultra 5 is placed under a speaker or component it is the weight of the speaker/component that 'loads' the technology pockets allowing Ultra 5 to isolate as intended. When an Ultra 5 or LPI is placed on the chassis of a component the weight of the stainless itself accomplishes the 'loading'.

Hope this helps...

 

[mep]

Yep, I read it. It just inherently doesn't make sense that something that was designed to be placed between a component and a shelf or a component and a floor would work just as well "single-ended" sitting on top of a component. If I read what he wrote correctly, he still advise using the LPI for that type of application which makes sense as that is the LPI's intended application.

 

[LL21]

Yep, I read it. It just inherently doesn't make sense that something that was designed to be placed between a component and a shelf or a component and a floor would work just as well "single-ended" sitting on top of a component. If I read what he wrote correctly, he still advise using the LPI for that type of application which makes sense as that is the LPI's intended application.

With the LP Isolator, the steel on top is applying the pressure to the ceramic balls and the ceramic balls are in close contact with the vibrating object underneath. With the Ultra 5, the steel on top is actually heavier i think. the difference is actually there is a steel buffer underneath the ceramic balls in between the component underneath and the ceramic balls. And yet for some reason, (i suspect due to weight?) the Ultra 5 was better on top of the Transport, CJ and the sub (1 v 1).

 

[elescher]

Hi Lloyd,

Are you using the 5's with the threads facing up or down on top of the subs?

 

[LL21]

Hi Lloyd,

Are you using the 5's with the threads facing up or down on top of the subs?

They are with the narrower bottom facing down in contact with the top of the sub...oriented the same way as the Ultra 5s under the X1s which were installed by the Distributor. Thus, the 'loading' is from the steel half of the unit on top.

 

[mep]

With the LP Isolator, the steel on top is applying the pressure to the ceramic balls and the ceramic balls are in close contact with the vibrating object underneath. With the Ultra 5, the steel on top is actually heavier i think. the difference is actually there is a steel buffer underneath the ceramic balls in between the component underneath and the ceramic balls. And yet for some reason, (i suspect due to weight?) the Ultra 5 was better on top of the Transport, CJ and the sub (1 v 1).

All that really matters is that you are happy and satisfied they are making a positive improvement to your sound.

 

[LL21]

All that really matters is that you are happy and satisfied they are making a positive improvement to your sound.

 

[LL21]

Hi Lloyd,

Are you using the 5's with the threads facing up or down on top of the subs?

They are with the narrower bottom facing down in contact with the top of the sub...oriented the same way as the Ultra 5s under the X1s which were installed by the Distributor. Thus, the 'loading' is from the steel half of the unit on top.

Following up, i just spoke with the manufacturer, and they also recommend the 'beveled side' or smaller diameter side down on top of the component. That is consistent with my own informal listening where after putting the wider base side down...i flipped them all over on the sub to narrower side/beveled side down...and preferred it this way. Hope that helps.

 

[allvinyl]

Ultra 5 and LPI differences

The LP isolator is designed differently than the Ultra 5s. Having expensive couplers that were designed to be loaded at both ends unloaded at one end and obtaining magic is truly magic.

Actually, the technology half(beveled half) of the Ultra 5 is functionally the same as the LPI with the following cosmetic and manufacturing differences. 1) different 'pads' on the Ultra 5 technology pockets with a 1/4-20 tap and 1/4" long set screw in the center of the pad used to separate the 2 halves, 2) the bevel on the technology half of the Ultra 5, and 3) the concave edge of the LPI.

 

[allvinyl]

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Following up, i just spoke with the manufacturer, and they also recommend the 'beveled side' or smaller diameter side down on top of the component. That is consistent with my own informal listening where after putting the wider base side down...i flipped them all over on the sub to narrower side/beveled side down...and preferred it this way. Hope that helps.

I may have already written about this... We always suggest orienting the Ultra 5, Ultra SS, and Ultra Mini products in both directions trusting your ears to tell you which orientation sounds best.

Our experience tells us the closer the technology is to the component being isolated the better the performance.

 

[LL21]

The LP isolator is designed differently than the Ultra 5s. Having expensive couplers that were designed to be loaded at both ends unloaded at one end and obtaining magic is truly magic.

Actually, the technology half(beveled half) of the Ultra 5 is functionally the same as the LPI with the following cosmetic and manufacturing differences. 1) different 'pads' on the Ultra 5 technology pockets with a 1/4-20 tap and 1/4" long set screw in the center of the pad used to separate the 2 halves, 2) the bevel on the technology half of the Ultra 5, and 3) the concave edge of the LPI.

Thanks for the clarifications, Allvinyl...most helpful to get the word directly from the manufacturer.

 

[elescher]

It would seem based on previous posts re orientation that it would be best to have the norrower side of the 5's in contact with the speakers..or am I confused?

 

[allvinyl]

Ultra Mini, Ultra SS, Ultra 5 and Speakers

It would seem based on previous posts re orientation that it would be best to have the norrower side of the 5's in contact with the speakers..or am I confused?

Yes, your statement concerning orientation coincides with our "closer the technology to the signal the better the performance" mantra. This presents a dicey issue in the context of speakers. I get very queasy every time I think about any speaker vibrating off a Stillpoint product because it wasn't directly attached via a set screw or adapter because the user chose to orient the U5 with the beveled half up. Unfortunately at this time the Ultra 5 has a tap on only one side, that being the half without the technology pockets. We have had any number of discussions on how the product design can be changed to accommodate a tap on each side and are still working to solve this.

As the products are currently designed, I NEVER suggest using the Ultra Mini, Ultra SS, or Ultra 5 products under speakers WITHOUT attaching them. I strongly believe the risk is too high versus any performance reward.

Perhaps even more importantly, attaching them and leaving a space between the Stillpoint product and the speaker creates a more difficult path for the vibration thus allowing the SP product to provide an even better level of isolation than if those 2 surfaces were in contact with each other.