SFP/FMC/Optical cable - The only important ethernet cable?

[TRHH]

There is simply no mechanism by which noise can be transferred over an optical cable.

Noise is transferred over electrical connections and no such connection exists using optical. Fiber will kill any noise being transmitted with the data which contains the digitised music.

If this this the case, than the only important ethernet cable would be from FMC to DAC/Streamer - the rest can be "simple" CAT6 U/UTP (see below illustration).

What are you thoughts about that?

Torben

 

[Gunnar]

Torben, interesting subject. I have no technical skill so can not add reliable thoughts but adding one question. Not sure it’s relevant but it has been in my mind for a while.

Can a high end Ethernet cable prior the optics add something else in quality compared to a stock one which will follow through into the DAC/Streamer??

When I added optic into the loop. Noice level went down. It went even further down replacing the transceivers and changed the optic cable to a singelmode glass fibre cable.

Gunnar

 

[audiobomber]

There is simply no mechanism by which noise can be transferred over an optical cable.

Noise is transferred over electrical connections and no such connection exists using optical. Fiber will kill any noise being transmitted with the data which contains the digitised music.

If this this the case, than the only important ethernet cable would be from FMC to DAC/Streamer - the rest can be "simple" CAT6 U/UTP (see below illustration).

What are you thoughts about that?

Torben

From my personal experience, with my system and a friend's, your statement is so wrong. Changing a power supply or cable upstream from the fiber conversion is easily audible and highly important.

 

[audiobomber]

Can a high end Ethernet cable prior the optics add something else in quality compared to a stock one which will follow through into the DAC/Streamer??

IME, absolutely! I just tried several ethernet cable changes and the results were clear. The most critical cable is the final one before the renderer, but all of the cables in the chain matter, regardless of whether they are upstream or downstream from the fiber conversion.

 

[Gunnar]

From my personal experience, with my system and a friend's, your statement is so wrong. Changing a power supply or cable upstream from the fiber conversion is easily audible and highly important.

I fully agree with you that power supplies, DC and AC power cords upstream makes a difference. In your personal experience did that also include Ethernet cables upstream?

 

[audiobomber]

I fully agree with you that power supplies, DC and AC power cords upstream makes a difference. In your personal experience did that also include Ethernet cables upstream?

Yes, including ethernet cables. I tried Furutech, modified Furutech (Telegartner connectors and lifted ground), Melco C100, Supra CAT8 Super (cryo'ed and Telegartner connectors), and a couple of generics, used between my NAS and Silent Angel N8, and from the N8 to the opticalModule Deluxe FMC, all upstream of the fiber conversion. I had clear preferences and the Melco and Supra were no-go for me.

 

[DSkip]

From my personal experience, with my system and a friend's, your statement is so wrong. Changing a power supply or cable upstream from the fiber conversion is easily audible and highly important.

This is a true statement. Theory vs application has created a plethora of arguments in this industry. I focus on application so I don’t have a theoretical argument, but I have experienced the same thing audiobomber has. It’s why I’m investing so heavily in my network.

 

[RnRmf]

My experience is that upstream changes find their way through downstream fiber.

When I first started experimenting with fiber last year, I bought a StarTech FMC that looked like the one pictured in the diagram. Saying it sounded bad is an understatement. I replaced it with a CHEAPER Trendnet switch with fiber capability and it was a dramatic improvement. Additional improvement came with a change to the power supply on that switch (iFi Power Elite).

The rep from Lumin streamers has suggested in forums that switches (fiber compatible) sound better than FMCs and my experience mirrored this.

 

[audiobomber]

The rep from Lumin streamers has suggested in forums that switches (fiber compatible) sound better than FMCs and my experience mirrored this

But is your experience is limited to a cheap generic FMC? I'm pretty confident that a Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 would change your mind.

Also, what kind of switch are your referring to, an audiophile network switch or a generic? I am skeptical that a business grade switch with SFP port would compare well with an EtherREGEN and omD v2. An LHY SW-10 would be better comparator.

 

[TRHH]

Additional improvement came with a change to the power supply on that switch (iFi Power Elite).

Then try this (Galvanic isolation from the mains)- After that I sold my iFi Power Elite



Torben

 

[RnRmf]

Then try this (Galvanic isolation from the mains)- After that I sold my iFi Power Elite

View attachment 113163

Torben

Is there a particular manufacturer for the power bank you use? I'm not familiar with them.

 

[RnRmf]

But is your experience is limited to a cheap generic FMC? I'm pretty confident that a Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 would change your mind.

Also, what kind of switch are your referring to, an audiophile network switch or a generic? I am skeptical that a business grade switch with SFP port would compare well with an EtherREGEN and omD v2. An LHY SW-10 would be better comparator.

Yes, the FMC was a $75 StarTech device. It sounded terrible and sent the sound quality several steps backwards versus non-fiber.

The switches (one on the sending end and one in the room with my stereo) I bought were even cheaper and sounded better than the FMC out off the box and changing the power supply yielded even further improvement.

I'm at a point where I have a hard time imagining how much better the sound could get.

I do plan to demo or buy an "audiophile" switch because I plan to try a different streamer that will accept a direct fiber connection so I'll need a switch in my listening area with 2 SFP slots.

The final improvement was only using ethernet cables with shields not grounded at the plug ends before the fiber conversion and into the switch and the router that precedes it (and for the ethernet connections from the switch in the listening room).

 

[Republicoftexas69]

The debate will go on forever. I am 100% fiber and love it!
I have 6 inches of cat 8 in my entire system.

 

[CKKeung]

The hobby of hifi is extremely subjective.
Scientific theories are NOT everything.
I always think that listening is believing.

BTW COS of Taiwan will launch a set of "two optical transceivers+optical fiber" soon.
They are examining/auditioning the various products in the market.
Worth keeping an eye on their final launch.

Fiber-optic module

6moons.com

 

[Gunnar]

The debate will go on forever. I am 100% fiber and love it!
I have 6 inches of cat 8 in my entire system.

The 6 inches cat 8 is that closest to the dac / streamer or?
Gunnar

 

[Republicoftexas69]

The 6 inches cat 8 is that closest to the dac / streamer or?
Gunnar

My Innuos Zenith. Streamer/server

 

[kennyb123]

Yes, the FMC was a $75 StarTech device. It sounded terrible and sent the sound quality several steps backwards versus non-fiber.

My experience as well with StarTech. It’s done more than any other device (excluding SFPs) to convince me that fiber isn’t anywhere near perfect at isolating.

 

[TRHH]

@kennyb123 - What FMC do you prefer?

Torben

 

[Gunnar]

My experience as well with StarTech. It’s done more than any other device (excluding SFPs) to convince me that fiber isn’t anywhere near perfect at isolating.

I am as far as it can to be an expert in this feld but was told the following..If i understand right you are inline with an expert in the field I had contact with.

I quote what he wrote back to me.

”When there are noise on the Ethernet signal, the noise will be concert to optical as well. With optical you only create a galvanic isolation without filtering out noise.” Stop quote

if correct, which I have no reason not to believe, it means for me that there are two difference types of noise so both optic and Ethernet are needed,

Gunnar

 

[TRHH]

@Gunnar - It would be interesting to know what kind of noise he thinks is going through fiber optical connection

Torben