Ron’s New System

[sbnx]

..... So while pleasing, an SET (unless imbued with properly applied feedback) can never be accurate or neutral. But for many its 'if this is wrong I don't want to be right'.

I agree. I don't think a lot of people really want "the absolute sound" that is true to the original. I could have a live string quartet playing in my listening room and I think if I invited groups of listeners most people would say it sounds too bright and that the strings aren't silky enough or its too (pick your favorite adjective). A lot are shooting for some type of "fantasy" sound.

Unfortunately, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want warm, lush etc. (What I would call blurry) you can't complain about the lack of resolution and transparency. Pick a lane.

 

[Thundersnow]

Another very successful sounding AC setup with planars...this time Alsyvox.

And yet, the modern gear sounds just as different from one another as gear did in the past, despite the supposed advances you state. What would be then your explanation for hearing these differences? Our imagination? If real and not distortion, then what?

Excellent.

 

[morricab]

Having owned the LL1 and the L2 ref my own subjective opinion is that the LL1 (all tubes) had higher resolution than L2ref (solid state with tubed power supply) and both reduced the resolution of the dCS Vivaldi stack. IMO, YMMV.

But probably enhanced the enjoyment factor by 10x over the DCS stack direct.

 

[morricab]

I agree. I don't think a lot of people really want "the absolute sound" that is true to the original. I could have a live string quartet playing in my listening room and I think if I invited groups of listeners most people would say it sounds too bright and that the strings aren't silky enough or its too (pick your favorite adjective). A lot are shooting for some type of "fantasy" sound.

Unfortunately, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want warm, lush etc. (What I would call blurry) you can't complain about the lack of resolution and transparency. Pick a lane.

I’ve had live string quartets in my living room and no one said any of the ridiculous things you posted. A live quartet in the room just blows you away…

 

[microstrip]

But probably enhanced the enjoyment factor by 10x over the DCS stack direct.

Unfortunately only with a few recordings. But other preamplfiers managed better general performance.

 

[morricab]

Unfortunately only with a few recordings. But other preamplfiers managed better general performance.

I wasn’t addressing other preamplifiers…

 

[bonzo75]

I agree. I don't think a lot of people really want "the absolute sound" that is true to the original. I could have a live string quartet playing in my listening room and I think if I invited groups of listeners most people would say it sounds too bright and that the strings aren't silky enough or its too (pick your favorite adjective). A lot are shooting for some type of "fantasy" sound.

Unfortunately, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want warm, lush etc. (What I would call blurry) you can't complain about the lack of resolution and transparency. Pick a lane.

Avantgarde playing digital through SS will sound bright. Only so much lipstick you can put on it. I can understand in such a system why you think tubes only help colouring

 

[PeterA]

Unfortunately, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want warm, lush etc. (What I would call blurry) you can't complain about the lack of resolution and transparency. Pick a lane.

Are you suggesting that a system cannot exhibit both qualities? A system can not sound both transparent or resolving and warm or lush?

 

[Atmasphere]

Are you suggesting that a system cannot exhibit both qualities? A system can not sound both transparent or resolving and warm or lush?

It can!

Avantgarde playing digital through SS will sound bright. Only so much lipstick you can put on it. I can understand in such a system why you think tubes only help colouring

That really depends on the digital and the amp. FWIW AvantGardes were originally designed using a solid state amp.

 

[bonzo75]

Are you suggesting that a system cannot exhibit both qualities? A system can not sound both transparent or resolving and warm or lush?

He has CH trios and has videos you can hear the compromises

 

[bonzo75]

It can!

That really depends on the digital and the amp. FWIW AvantGardes were originally designed using a solid state amp.

Yes I am aware I visited the factory twice and also compared the SS amps with valve

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Are you suggesting that a system cannot exhibit both qualities? A system can not sound both transparent or resolving and warm or lush?

i only want warm and lush when the musical content is warm and lush. we especially want to avoid warm and lush as any sort of overlay or sameness. no smoothing or rounding. we do want transparent and resolving, but also full bodied, liquid and continuous and not grainy or bleached.

solid state can be all those things, but not typically.

 

[PeterA]

He has CH trios and has videos you can hear the compromises

I am looking for his explanation of why one has to “choose a lane.”

 

[Kingrex]

i only want warm and lush when the musical content is warm and lush. we especially want to avoid warm and lush as any sort of overlay or sameness. no smoothing or rounding. we do want transparent and resolving, but also full bodied, liquid and continuous and not grainy or bleached.

solid state can be all those things, but not typically.

Can a tube do those things? Whats the best tube.or circuit, In Your Opinion, of course.

 

[PeterA]

i only want warm and lush when the musical content is warm and lush. we especially want to avoid warm and lush as any sort of overlay or sameness. no smoothing or rounding. we do want transparent and resolving, but also full bodied, liquid and continuous and not grainy or bleached.

solid state can be all those things, but not typically.

I’m describing the presentation of musical content. A transparent system can portray the sound of a cello as warm and lush. That does not mean the system is warm and lush.

Ron however, has described his goals. One of them is having a lower tonal center of gravity. He also seems to have a strong preference for tubes in his own system and chooses speakers which in theory are fairly transparent and resolving. This is his system thread, but a lot of people seem to be describing things that they themselves like.

 

[bonzo75]

Can a tube do those things? Whats the best tube.or circuit, In Your Opinion, of course.

The point is if you put a good SET that is transparent on a speaker it cannot drive it will sound flabby bloated slow and rolled off, and the scholars on this forum will call it coloured, because they did not use the properly matched great to judge in the first place. This is the same if you do not match a cartridge gain to the phono

 

[Atmasphere]

Yes I am aware I visited the factory twice and also compared the SS amps with valve

There are a lot of solid state amps out there. When designing for solid state, the speaker is designed to be Voltage driven, which is to say that the amp can behave as a Voltage source. Most solid state amps can do that, but some are bright (in particular older designs) and some are not.

Put another way there are a lot of variables here and just because you heard one solid state amp on them (or even 10) does not mean that all solid state amps are bright on Avantgardes.

Can a tube do those things? Whats the best tube.or circuit, In Your Opinion, of course.

I know you didn't ask me but yes tubes can do that.

The point is if you put a good SET that is transparent on a speaker it cannot drive it will sound flabby bloated slow and rolled off, and the scholars on this forum will call it coloured, because they did not use the properly matched great to judge in the first place. This is the same if you do not match a cartridge gain to the phono

Even if you put it on a speaker that an SET can drive easily it will sound colored (due to its excessive distortion) next to better amps, tube or solid state. What most people don't get about PP if they are into SETs is that the best PP amps of similar power to an SET will easily beat the SET by any metric audiophiles find valuable.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Can a tube do those things?

i think so.

Whats the best tube.or circuit, In Your Opinion, of course.

i've heard few tube circuits that were able to; but my tube circuit experience is somewhat limited so not sure it's comprehensive enough. but i would say that my silver wound EMIA Phono Corrector + Slagle silver SUT MC Trio is very neutral and matches the purity of the darTZeel electronics. or rather it's close enough to be 'of a piece' with it. and that is a big ask.

not saying it's the best or perfect or anything like that, but it avoids sameness or colored presentation and also get's out of the way of the music effectively. it is similarly balanced in presentation and like the darts does not call attention to itself. yet still sucks you in and propels the music.

of course; my hot-rodded Nuvistor tubed Ampex MR-70 tape preamps are pretty awesome and are not in any way colored. they are also 'of a piece' with the darts.

 

[sbnx]

i only want warm and lush when the musical content is warm and lush. we especially want to avoid warm and lush as any sort of overlay or sameness. no smoothing or rounding. we do want transparent and resolving, but also full bodied, liquid and continuous and not grainy or bleached.

solid state can be all those things, but not typically.

100% agree with this.

 

[Atmasphere]

my hot-rodded Nuvistor tubed Ampex MR-70 tape preamps are pretty awesome and are not in any way colored. they are also 'of a piece' with the darts.

I expect that is a bit challenging finding Nuvistors for it. Lovely machine.