Ron’s New System

[abeidrov]

Poor choice of benchmark?

No way! Is our Guru loosing it? What is the world coming to?
Sorry, couldn’t resist

 

[Holmz]

Tbh Ron,
I rather prefer Stevie Nicks or Fleetwood Mac than Diana Krall on your system. Or it might be just that song or version of California Dreaming that I don’t like where Diana Krells voice sounds retarded (sorry to say) (although I like Diana Krall in general). I like the original California Dreaming with the original tempo and not a copied and slowed down version to some kind of heroin-tempo, don’t like it, but that’s only me, and YMMV.

What I would like to hear, is how your system performs on electronic music, like Yello, Depeche Mode or Jean-Michel Jarre for instance, I think that might sound amazing.

/ Jk

Could be a new definition of “Group delay”?

 

[tima]

I quickly went back and forth between the two videos. It's clear as day that Kedar's recording sounds cuspy and boxy compared to Ron's recording. Also, the organ is much better defined and delineated in Ron's recording. The vocal is clearly superior on the planar speaker.

What does 'cuspy' mean to you as an audio adjective? That's a new one to me.

 

[PeterA]

You can benchmark Diana’s voice here

I prefer this rendition . . .

Ron, thank you for posting your video. Is this the same source as in Bonzo's video? I find this comparison pretty interesting. The biggest contrast between the two occurs for me around 1:20 when the bass and percussion come in. They sound completely different to me. I wonder if they are the same mastering. The last third with what sounds like piano and strings is more natural sounding to me in Kedar's video, less boosted highs, less tizzy. On Kedar's video it sounds like a soft drum stick being struck. On Ron's it sounds like a shaker/tambourine or something. Completely different, and I don't know which is more correct. I agree with the "boxy" comment on her vocals on Kedar's video, but only in quick back and forth switching. When played straight through, the vocals sound good, if you like her voice. Sometimes I think it sounds like a lot of room influence but also a bit more rounded and present, where Ron's is flatter with less room. Neither is what I would describe as a real open sounding vocal. I'm a bit at a loss as to which video is more representative of the recording because they sound quite different and I am not familiar with this music.

I appreciate that Ron actually posted a video to give us some indication of his progress. This video does sound less dark and recessed than his former videos, so I do understand why he seems more pleased with the sound of his system in his room.

I am curious to read now what Kedar/Bonzo thinks of the comparison. Thanks Ron.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, thank you for posting your video.

Sure!

Is this the same source as in Bonzo's video?

I believe so.

The last third with what sounds like piano and strings is more natural sounding to me in Kedar's video, less boosted highs, less tizzy.

Interestingly, I hear exactly the opposite. I think the strings are screechier and more irritating on Kedar's video. Overall I hear my video as being more natural, less dry, less electronic sounding, more believable.

I am not curious to read now what Kedar/Bonzo thinks of the comparison. Thanks Ron.

You are welcome!

 

[morricab]

Ron, thank you for posting your video. Is this the same source as in Bonzo's video? I find this comparison pretty interesting. The biggest contrast between the two occurs for me around 1:20 when the bass and percussion come in. They sound completely different to me. I wonder if they are the same mastering. The last third with what sounds like piano and strings is more natural sounding to me in Kedar's video, less boosted highs, less tizzy. On Kedar's video it sounds like a soft drum stick being struck. On Ron's it sounds like a shaker/tambourine or something. Completely different, and I don't know which is more correct. I agree with the "boxy" comment on her vocals on Kedar's video, but only in quick back and forth switching. When played straight through, the vocals sound good, if you like her voice. Sometimes I think it sounds like a lot of room influence but also a bit more rounded and present, where Ron's is flatter with less room. Neither is what I would describe as a real open sounding vocal. I'm a bit at a loss as to which video is more representative of the recording because they sound quite different and I am not familiar with this music.

I appreciate that Ron actually posted a video to give us some indication of his progress. This video does sound less dark and recessed than his former videos, so I do understand why he seems more pleased with the sound of his system in his room.

I am curious to read now what Kedar/Bonzo thinks of the comparison. Thanks Ron.

There is a ton of room effect on Ked's video. I see what you mean about Ron's sounding a bit flatter but his bass has far better definition than the other video. I need to hear the song direct to my headphones to see where they land on the correctness spectrum.

Overall though there is a lack of definition in the Ked video that I find distracting because of the smear it has through the bass and the boxiness/room interference on the mids and highs. Tonally, its warmer, which gives more body but there are too many tradeoffs I think.

Update:

Ron's is closer to the recording itself by a considerable margin. That said, the recording itself has the instruments more cozied up to Diana around her voice and her voice is not projecting to an extreme degree because of the relative level of the instruments around her. Ron's has Diana's voice way out in front with the instruments sort of a pale ghost in the background. The whole mix is much warmer than what I hear on Ron's and the Ked video is closer in that direction...but only in that direction...otherwise, it is far away from the actual recording.

 

[Thundersnow]

What does 'cuspy' mean to you as an audio adjective? That's a new one to me.

Probably didn't say it right, sorry about that. Anyway, what I meant was: "boxy," "nasal," or simply "cupped." That's how I hear the sound in that recording compared to Ron's sound.

 

[morricab]

Probably didn't say it right, sorry about that. Anyway, what I meant was: "boxy," "nasal," or simply "cupped." That's how I hear the sound in that recording compared to Ron's sound.

I would agree with that...

 

[Porsche]

you're judging a system from audio clips played through a iPhone/computer, hmmm

 

[Al M.]

There is a ton of room effect on Ked's video. I see what you mean about Ron's sounding a bit flatter but his bass has far better definition than the other video. I need to hear the song direct to my headphones to see where they land on the correctness spectrum.

Overall though there is a lack of definition in the Ked video that I find distracting because of the smear it has through the bass and the boxiness/room interference on the mids and highs. Tonally, its warmer, which gives more body but there are too many tradeoffs I think.

Update:

Ron's is closer to the recording itself by a considerable margin. That said, the recording itself has the instruments more cozied up to Diana around her voice and her voice is not projecting to an extreme degree because of the relative level of the instruments around her. Ron's has Diana's voice way out in front with the instruments sort of a pale ghost in the background. The whole mix is much warmer than what I hear on Ron's and the Ked video is closer in that direction...but only in that direction...otherwise, it is far away from the actual recording.

Yes, Ron's video does not sound that warm, but this is a general problem with his videos *) compared to the sound in room, which I have heard myself. Based on the difference that I generally hear in warmth between Ron's videos and his in-room sound on the same tracks that I have heard there, I bet that also in this case the in-room sound is warmer and thus in this respect closer to the recording as well.

The video that Ked posted is a sonic horror show.

_____________________

*) Did I ever say that system videos are problematic? I think I did

 

[Ron Resnick]

you're judging a system from audio clips played through a iPhone/computer, hmmm

Don't blame me! I think this is nonsense, except for the one narrow circumstance I have explained on the video threads.

I did this strictly upon request.

 

[morricab]

Yes, Ron's video does not sound that warm, but this is a general problem with his videos *) compared to the sound in room, which I have heard myself. Based on the difference that I generally hear in warmth between Ron's videos and his in-room sound on the same tracks that I have heard there, I bet that also in this case the in-room sound is warmer and thus in this respect closer to the recording as well.

The video that Ked posted is a sonic horror show.

_____________________

*) Did I ever say that system videos are problematic? I think I did

Yes, I have noticed this making my own videos that there is some thinning out of the sound with the Iphone recordings. It is usually not too extreme but the live in room is still warmer/richer than what comes from the recording.

 

[PeterA]

Yes, I have noticed this making my own videos that there is some thinning out of the sound with the Iphone recordings. It is usually not too extreme but the live in room is still warmer/richer than what comes from the recording.

I notice this too but I suspect much of it has to do with the massive difference between our systems and the video replay gear. Still, the videos are not meant as a replacement or the same, just a tool to judge specific qualities to assess progress of one’s own when sharing with others or simply to give an impression.

 

[morricab]

I notice this too but I suspect much of it has to do with the massive difference between our systems and the video replay gear. Still, the videos are not meant as a replacement or the same, just a tool to judge specific qualities to assess progress of one’s own when sharing with others or simply to give an impression.

Given that it seems to be a consistent effect regardless of systems or playback, I think it has more to do with the Iphone.

 

[PeterA]

Given that it seems to be a consistent effect regardless of systems or playback, I think it has more to do with the Iphone.

I’ve never heard the same weight and mass from my system reproduced on a system video played through my computer speakers or headphones with and without a headphone amp, not to mention the sense of presence or perspective differences between between my system and headphone presentation.

 

[DasguteOhr]

slow motion version of the mamas & papas song, they would turn in their graves, I'd rather listen to the sia version much more expressive voice.
It would be much easier to judge whether the system is playing cleanly than as with the soften rounded version

 

[bonzo75]

I prefer this rendition . . .

Thanks for posting this I really appreciate you doing this. Can we continue this for a few more tracks? On vocals? Everyone’s enjoying it

 

[hopkins]

slow motion version of the mamas & papas song, they would turn in their graves, I'd rather listen to the sia version much more expressive voice.
It would be much easier to judge whether the system is playing cleanly than as with the soften rounded version

No thanks! My favorite:

Another great cover from that same album:

Different times…

End of parenthesis