Reference Turntable, The Step Beyond

Tango

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Tang
I emailed Airbearing (Eckart) and he told me about his version and yours from Acoustical Systems. I saw that picture of another version and was wondering what the pricing could be. To do Airbearings version would require me to see a machine shop and I am feeling lazy. I would appreciate the contact info of your guy for the arm mount.
My EMT has the big power supply, so there is a transformer there covered in a metal box. I have the Korean made suspension base so it may be a little different from your German made one. View attachment 49492
I talked to my tonearm guy already. This custom armbase was done for the EMT banana arm and the tt suspension frame is needed to be drilled. He has not a template for the SME mount. I think it is best to have a fabricator do it overthere to make exact measurements for you.

Kindest regards,
Tang
 
You hear a lot of happy experiences shared in various threads when new gear is introduced into someone’s system. Well..Here is another one.

This past few days, the 927 setup made me think what I have been hearing from my Kronos and AF1 setups. All three tt setups I have have different kinds of presentation and sound. The Kronos setup has tapelike clarity, resolution, snap and dynamic, a bit up front, light and medium rare (raw). The AF1 setup presents sound like the way it was built. Very attention to detail, very organized, everything is neatly placed, solid, articulate, extremely quiet, I would go so far as saying it is a tt with some hint of digital.

What does 927 sound like? It is difficult to answer. I can put vocabs into describing Kronos and Techdas because they make me “aware” of their characters. And these characters show up consistently in all records I play regardless of arm cart combos. But words, adjectives don’t seem to pop up when listening to the 927 setup I have now. You can ask if it has pitch black background, I will say it is so quiet but not black. You ask if it is very dynamic, I will say it almost knocked me off my chair listening to Belafonte. How is the bottom end and top end extension, I say it has rock-solid bottom and harp sounds wonderful with it. Is the midrange rich, warm, dense and textured, I say as warm as dense and textured as a good homemade roast beef. But a strange thing is all these descriptions and words don’t come up at all in my head when listening to this setup. I am pretty sure if you come to audition my system and I play the Coralstone/Axiom/AF1 for you with some records, I ask your comment, one of the thing you will say is the stage is so wide and deep, good layer. That is because the equipment grabs your attention and enhances that feature. In real life we listen to a performance on stage, we don’t go around saying wow good sound stage. With the 927 you know where each instruments are. If it is in the far back, you will hear it is in the far back without the sense of reminding that it is deep.

I don’t know what David means by “Beyond” and I don’t know why Airbearing is so much in love with his 927. But For me, I think this 927 setup is a super setup because it makes me go beyond thinking or get distracted of characters of these equipments, and just enjoy the music that sound natural and more realistic. You will need Airbearing or ddk who are so much more experienced than me to describe how the 927 really is. Admittedly, I couldn’t bear listening to the 927 the first two months I had it. Now it is my favorite. It is my new discovery so I feel like to write about it.

Kind regards,
Tang
I like your concepts.
50+ yrs old and still sounding great.
EMT 927A with AtlasSL on Ortofon 297.



Tang
Dear Tang. I have listed your video showing Ortofon 297 with Atlas on EMT-927. Now, the record was originally recorded in mono. Did you played it with mono cartridge? In my opinion Orotofon 297 is particularly great arm for mono cartridges.
 
For all who contributed to this interesting thread.
I have really learned a lot by reading and listening to the important experiences of all of you, especially since I have recently incorporated an EMT-927 that works incredibly with the help of a great friend and technician from Germany.
Throughout my life, I have had belt and idler tts. I currently own Clearaudio Statement with its original tangential arm, Thorens 124 MK II with plinth and NORMA arm, Garrard 301 also with plinth and NORMA arm. I have used Oracle Delphi, Linn Lp-12, etc, etc. for years ...
Currently, my EMT-927 is equipped with two arms, one is Ortofon 297 in which I am using a Miyabi Mono cartridge with a headshell specially manufactured by Miyabi, and the second arm is a Fidelity Research FR-66 with a stereo Tedeska capsule. My EM&-927 is completed with the original Phono EQ EMT-319ST. The Ortofon 297 is with original wire (changed using modern pure silver but the original one was better) Both arms are connected to EMT-319 with selective mechanical key. My reference Phono EQ was Allnic H-5000 deeply modified and upgraded, but I found the performance of EMT-319 really good and I love this combo of 927 + 139.
For my, reproduction of mono Lp is very important and I find the performance of Ortofon 297 with Miyabi very satisfactorily. It creates a deep and great sound stage. But I am not totally satisfied with my second arm FR-66 with Tedeska. The stereo sound does not have the same mono sound body and depth, and I would like to equate it to the mono. But I prefer to reproduce stereo Lp on EMT than Clearaudio. I have read about Tang's experience with his 14 "Axiom arm with great interest and I am very interested when I read that he got the same result as Ortofon 297 but with more details ... Very interesting ... to consider ...
 

Attachments

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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For all who contributed to this interesting thread.
I have really learned a lot by reading and listening to the important experiences of all of you, especially since I have recently incorporated an EMT-927 that works incredibly with the help of a great friend and technician from Germany.
Throughout my life, I have had belt and idler tts. I currently own Clearaudio Statement with its original tangential arm, Thorens 124 MK II with plinth and NORMA arm, Garrard 301 also with plinth and NORMA arm. I have used Oracle Delphi, Linn Lp-12, etc, etc. for years ...
Currently, my EMT-927 is equipped with two arms, one is Ortofon 297 in which I am using a Miyabi Mono cartridge with a headshell specially manufactured by Miyabi, and the second arm is a Fidelity Research FR-66 with a stereo Tedeska capsule. My EM&-927 is completed with the original Phono EQ EMT-319ST. The Ortofon 297 is with original wire (changed using modern pure silver but the original one was better) Both arms are connected to EMT-319 with selective mechanical key. My reference Phono EQ was Allnic H-5000 deeply modified and upgraded, but I found the performance of EMT-319 really good and I love this combo of 927 + 139.
For my, reproduction of mono Lp is very important and I find the performance of Ortofon 297 with Miyabi very satisfactorily. It creates a deep and great sound stage. But I am not totally satisfied with my second arm FR-66 with Tedeska. The stereo sound does not have the same mono sound body and depth, and I would like to equate it to the mono. But I prefer to reproduce stereo Lp on EMT than Clearaudio. I have read about Tang's experience with his 14 "Axiom arm with great interest and I am very interested when I read that he got the same result as Ortofon 297 but with more details ... Very interesting ... to consider ...
Welcome to WBF Dante you have a beautiful 927! Like you mono reproduction is very important to me too. I have an SME 3012-r and EMT 997 on my 927. I recommend and vintage 997 in place of the FR and EMT cartridges. I have a decent collection of 78 rpms and with the 997 I can easily switch between a TMD 25 and the TND 65 for 78 and then TSD 25 for stereo.

david
 
Likes: dan31

Tango

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I like your concepts.

Dear Tang. I have listed your video showing Ortofon 297 with Atlas on EMT-927. Now, the record was originally recorded in mono. Did you played it with mono cartridge? In my opinion Orotofon 297 is particularly great arm for mono cartridges.
Hi Dante,

I never played mono cart on 297. I am not really into spu and mono. I find with good setup a good stereo cart can do pretty much what mono can and more in other areas. My preference in sound is also not into big thick sound. I am into natural clarity, resolution of tape but with soul.
All my time with 927 has been with mc carts. I used emt headshell when using ortofon 297. I did not find the 297 work as well as my Axiom. And the adaptability to different modern mc carts involves finding a proper headshell all the time with 297. Just more variables. The Axiom XL does give more resolution than the 297. It has a longer arm wand than a normal Axiom to accommodate for a lengthier pivot mount of the 927. My 927 does not come with a phono builtin. Most 927 owners I know use different phono and claim better performance. My fellow Thai audiophile Mr.T uses Thales Statement arm specially designed for 927 with GFS and Kondo phono. He likes the combo very much. You might want to consider this arm also if seeking for a modern arm for 927.
 
Likes: Dante Choi
Just to
Hi Dante,

I never played mono cart on 297. I am not really into spu and mono. I find with good setup a good stereo cart can do pretty much what mono can and more in other areas. My preference in sound is also not into big thick sound. I am into natural clarity, resolution of tape but with soul.
All my time with 927 has been with mc carts. I used emt headshell when using ortofon 297. I did not find the 297 work as well as my Axiom. And the adaptability to different modern mc carts involves finding a proper headshell all the time with 297. Just more variables. The Axiom XL does give more resolution than the 297. It has a longer arm wand than a normal Axiom to accommodate for a lengthier pivot mount of the 927. My 927 does not come with a phono builtin. Most 927 owners I know use different phono and claim better performance. My fellow Thai audiophile Mr.T uses Thales Statement arm specially designed for 927 with GFS and Kondo phono. He likes the combo very much. You might want to consider this arm also if seeking for a modern arm for 927.
Dear Tango.
Many tks for your fast and kind feedback.
Just for your information, my current main speakers are Wilson Alexx but I have used during last 30 years Tannoy Autograph with Silver Monitors 15". I love them, I love these vintage sound, I love to play original mono ALP, 33CX, LXT, LM, etc... mono sound from '50 and '60.
Last Oct I had been in Guangzhou and I had the opportunity to listen to some Cessaro speakers in a dealer office. I listen, Art Deco, Liszt, and Gamma II with Incredibles 2 x 2 x 18" subwoofers. Before the appointment, I carefully selected several LPs from my collection and I flew from Buenos Aires to China to listen to these spectacular types of equipment. Really was a dream. During this past April, I went ago to the same place but at this time with my own mono cartridges and my loved mono Lps. Frankly speaking, the experience was not so good as the first time with stereo Lps. I have used during many years vintage Ortofon SPU, and now I am using old Miyaybi mono and Tedeska new mono cartridges. If you still did not discover mono' world, I'd like to recommend to listen to Tedeska mono. Recently this small company launched a new splendid mono cartridge and the performance is simply amazing. This is not old, vintage, big, deep sound, this is full of clarity, resolution, and magic tone and nuance.

I will take careful note about your recommendation. In my opinion, FR-66 is not capable to take out the best of EMT-927 for stereo sound. I will consider your Axiom XL or Thales Statement. In the case of GFS, I have used in my Clearaudio Statement with tangential TT1 but replaced by also Tedeska stereo cartridge.

B Rgds
Dante
 

Tango

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Mar 12, 2017
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Just to


Dear Tango.
Many tks for your fast and kind feedback.
Just for your information, my current main speakers are Wilson Alexx but I have used during last 30 years Tannoy Autograph with Silver Monitors 15". I love them, I love these vintage sound, I love to play original mono ALP, 33CX, LXT, LM, etc... mono sound from '50 and '60.
Last Oct I had been in Guangzhou and I had the opportunity to listen to some Cessaro speakers in a dealer office. I listen, Art Deco, Liszt, and Gamma II with Incredibles 2 x 2 x 18" subwoofers. Before the appointment, I carefully selected several LPs from my collection and I flew from Buenos Aires to China to listen to these spectacular types of equipment. Really was a dream. During this past April, I went ago to the same place but at this time with my own mono cartridges and my loved mono Lps. Frankly speaking, the experience was not so good as the first time with stereo Lps. I have used during many years vintage Ortofon SPU, and now I am using old Miyaybi mono and Tedeska new mono cartridges. If you still did not discover mono' world, I'd like to recommend to listen to Tedeska mono. Recently this small company launched a new splendid mono cartridge and the performance is simply amazing. This is not old, vintage, big, deep sound, this is full of clarity, resolution, and magic tone and nuance.

I will take careful note about your recommendation. In my opinion, FR-66 is not capable to take out the best of EMT-927 for stereo sound. I will consider your Axiom XL or Thales Statement. In the case of GFS, I have used in my Clearaudio Statement with tangential TT1 but replaced by also Tedeska stereo cartridge.

B Rgds
Dante
Dante. These Tedeska carts (https://www.tedeska.com/products/stereo/) models are even more confusing than the vdh. Which one catch your ears most. And where do the stand price wise. Mounting is sme spu?

Kind regards,
Tang
 

Tango

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@ddk. Mr.Choi came out of nowhere and said something about a new cart I never heard. All the sudden I have an urge. What's wrong with me?
 

airbearing

Active Member
May 2, 2012
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Munich - Germany
Hi Dante,
I am a big fan of Mono, using several carts on the R-80 and other tables.
On the R 80 I am using the first ever built SME with a bakelite EMT OFD-25 playing through a true mono Miyajima SUT enabling matching input and output coils in the best way posssible. Going this path the Mono signal (one side) will be transported on both channels without need pressing the Mono button at the preamp.

a monoraul step up transformer on which you can regulate gain impedance in this way realizing the ideal frequency balance. Stereo is changed to monaural. This is the ultimate Mono-SUT for everyone seriously working with Mono Vinyl especially when you are using true mono carts like the old bakalite monos of EMT and Ortofon.


https://audiocirc.com/2016/07/11/the-first-sme/

45D1BD00-92B0-4AFB-8993-B4B76DF7E5A8.jpeg

8D029CDF-64ED-45C5-ADB6-4199B703F687.jpeg 4197396E-4412-456D-9297-0445749FBBCF.jpeg
Best
E.
 
Last edited:
Likes: Dante Choi

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
4,326
886
360
Utah
@ddk. Mr.Choi came out of nowhere and said something about a new cart I never heard. All the sudden I have an urge. What's wrong with me?
We both need cartridgeholics anonymous, been aggressively buying vintage mm's for the past several months!

david
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
4,326
886
360
Utah
Just to
Dear Tango.
Many tks for your fast and kind feedback...
Dante
... My fellow Thai audiophile Mr.T uses Thales Statement arm specially designed for 927 with GFS and Kondo phono. He likes the combo very much. You might want to consider this arm also if seeking for a modern arm for 927.
Here's Mr. T's system that Tang mentioned.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/american-sound-as-2000-installations-far-east-mr-ts.26053/

I think you'll enjoy this system too.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/american-sound-as-2000-installations-far-east-andrew.26055/

david
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
3,463
2,792
335
Bangkok
Hi Dante,
I am a big fan of Mono, using several carts on the R-80 and other tables.
On the R 80 I am using the first ever built SME with a bakelite EMT OFD-25 playing through a true mono Miyajima SUT enabling matching input and output coils in the best way posssible. Going this path the Mono signal (one side) will be transported on both channels without need pressing the Mono button at the preamp.

a monoraul step up transformer on which you can regulate gain impedance in this way realizing the ideal frequency balance. Stereo is changed to monaural. This is the ultimate Mono-SUT for everyone seriously working with Mono Vinyl especially when you are using true mono carts like the old bakalite monos of EMT and Ortofon.


https://audiocirc.com/2016/07/11/the-first-sme/

View attachment 57418

View attachment 57419 View attachment 57420
Best
E.
This is porn E.

Tang :p
 
May 30, 2010
16,224
1,202
420
Portugal
Hi Dante,
I am a big fan of Mono, using several carts on the R-80 and other tables.
On the R 80 I am using the first ever built SME with a bakelite EMT OFD-25 playing through a true mono Miyajima SUT enabling matching input and output coils in the best way posssible. Going this path the Mono signal (one side) will be transported on both channels without need pressing the Mono button at the preamp.

a monoraul step up transformer on which you can regulate gain impedance in this way realizing the ideal frequency balance. Stereo is changed to monaural. This is the ultimate Mono-SUT for everyone seriously working with Mono Vinyl especially when you are using true mono carts like the old bakalite monos of EMT and Ortofon.


https://audiocirc.com/2016/07/11/the-first-sme/
Best
E.
Just to remember that the Crystal Dreamline is a great cable for the SME 3012R - IMHO its full and detailed sound complements very well the fast sound of this tonearm. I tried it after seeing your photos and really appreciated it.

But interested people should beware that the horrible sounding chinese Crystal Dreamline copy has been showing regularly in the second hand market.
 

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