Pure Audio Project upgrades and tweaks

Starting this thread to discuss Pure Audio Project open baffle speakers, upgrades and tweaks. @Kingrex - if you have had both the horns and Coax10, I would be interested in hearing how they compare. And I copied your earlier post below.

What cables upgrades did you use? And can you share a picture of where you located the crossover? Is it attached to something else, or sitting on the floor? I was wondering about the height of the midrange/tweeter and if I should rake the front up. My system will be the Trio15 Coax10, Playback Designs MPS-8 source and Pass Int-25 amp. I'm still waiting for my walnut baffles to ship from RJ Millworkers.

You have to get the updated speaker cables. Its critical.

And , you have to separate the crossover from the frame. Again critical.

If the crossover is touching the frame, the music is very smeared from the intense physical vibration.

If you use stock, instead of upgraded cables, you loose life, air and bass. Less coherent.

The speaker is very good with these tweeks. You don't need to futz with any caps or reaistors with the Coax crossover.

You need to be patient. They take 500 hours like any speaker to break in. 2000 or a year to really be there. I actually put my coax in the basement connected to a class D amp and laptop for week and let it rip sitting on the floor. I would go dowm 3 or 4 times a day to switxh the album and volume.

Also, mine sit on a 9 inch tall very heavy block of wood that sits on fiberglass insulation. A rug would also work. Massive improvement in bass. Just shocking. And, it raises the center of the coax much closer to ear height. Otherwise its too low and like sitting in a balcony.

The fabric over the top keeps the sun from striking the driver. That is all its for.

 

Yes take it bit by bit, and if it doesn't sound better, reverse the work.

The Quintet15s are a superb speaker, I can see it will never sell them! As stock they are already way beyond their price point, I would say 3x beyond at least. A few tweaks here and there to suit my taste, and it gets to another level in my room. The room and system all affect things of course. I also use 2 x JL Audio subs, though without them they sound wideband, I have them set very subtle.

 

Oui, allez-y petit à petit, et si ça ne sonne pas mieux, inversez le travail.

Les Quintet15 sont d'excellentes enceintes, je vois bien qu'elles ne se vendront jamais ! En stock, elles sont déjà bien au-dessus de leur prix, je dirais même trois fois plus cher. Quelques ajustements ici et là pour les adapter à mes goûts, et elles atteignent un niveau supérieur dans ma pièce. La pièce et le système ont bien sûr une influence. J'utilise également deux caissons de basses JL Audio, mais sans eux, le son est large bande, je les ai réglés très subtilement.

Oui, je vais le faire très progressivement
J'utilise le boîtier Rel32 et j'en suis satisfait. Il existe probablement mieux, mais il est difficile d'essayer différentes marques chez moi.
J'ai donc dû choisir une marque.
J'ai une question, qui sera probablement très stupide, mais ce type d'enceinte est nouveau pour moi.
Pourquoi les câbles des haut-parleurs ne vont-ils pas directement du filtre aux 4 woofers ?
Si je devais faire passer tous les câbles directement depuis le verre, y aurait-il un problème ?

 

I'm tired of translating to French. Call me Lazy.

 

I'm tired of translating to French. Call me Lazy.

Sorry, I don't understand why this is in French.
I'll try to fix it tomorrow.

 

Replace the stock cables. Stock are very limiting in performance. The upgrade cables through PAP are very good. The foil I noted is similar to the upgrade cables. But its not as good. The cables are very audible. Its not easy to select the correct ones. I still have work to do with mine.

I have heard the open baffle speakers Rhapsody carries. They are in a concrete frame. They are very similar. PAP definitely rival the performance. I was mulling how I could make a concrete frame. The difference is in the air and space. The Rhapsody speaker is more controlled. Thats the very dense frame material. It may be the concrete and rebar could be a simple side brace and the existing PAP faces are bolted to the concrete. Easy, inexpensive and possibly very effective.

I also thought about getting the counter top material from Home Depot. The wood tops they make. The Maple top may work well. Its strips of glued 1.5 inch material. Its about $200 for a piece that would work for a single Trio 15. Alll you have to do is route the holes and make a floor brace to hold it upright.

 

Oui, je vais le faire très progressivement
J'utilise le boîtier Rel32 et j'en suis satisfait. Il existe probablement mieux, mais il est difficile d'essayer différentes marques chez moi.
J'ai donc dû choisir une marque.
J'ai une question, qui sera probablement très stupide, mais ce type d'enceinte est nouveau pour moi.
Pourquoi les câbles des haut-parleurs ne vont-ils pas directement du filtre aux 4 woofers ?
Si je devais faire passer tous les câbles directement depuis le verre, y aurait-il un problème ?

I'm going to do it very gradually
I use the Rel32 subwoofer and I'm happy with it. There are probably better out there, but it's difficult to try out different brands at home.
So I had to choose a brand.
I have a question, which will probably be very stupid, but this type of speaker is new to me.
Why don't the speaker cables go directly from the crossover to the 4 woofers?
If I had to run all the cables directly from the glass, would there be a problem?

 

Replace the stock cables. Stock are very limiting in performance. The upgrade cables through PAP are very good. The foil I noted is similar to the upgrade cables. But its not as good. The cables are very audible. Its not easy to select the correct ones. I still have work to do with mine.

I have heard the open baffle speakers Rhapsody carries. They are in a concrete frame. They are very similar. PAP definitely rival the performance. I was mulling how I could make a concrete frame. The difference is in the air and space. The Rhapsody speaker is more controlled. Thats the very dense frame material. It may be the concrete and rebar could be a simple side brace and the existing PAP faces are bolted to the concrete. Easy, inexpensive and possibly very effective.

I also thought about getting the counter top material from Home Depot. The wood tops they make. The Maple top may work well. Its strips of glued 1.5 inch material. Its about $200 for a piece that would work for a single Trio 15. Alll you have to do is route the holes and make a floor brace to hold it upright.

Thank you for your reply.
I had the enc k2 S9500 from JBL
CE FUT very good speakers.
The criticism for me was the concrete base.
Too heavy
And every time I wanted to adjust the positioning of the speaker
I damaged the tiles every time I moved them.
Even with skids under the concrete bases to help move the speaker, it remained too heavy to move.

 

Great thread!
View attachment 122879
I’ve done some mods to my PAP Quintets 1.6 Voxativ

I have them sitting on 3” butcher block. I have Wave Kinetics 2NS isolators Eden Sound brass footers go into the 2NS.

I used Isodamp along the frame where the baffle attaches to the baffle. I also added washers to the bolts so I could tighten the baffle to the frame tighter. The bolts were sinking into the wood so the oversized washer fixed that issue. I added washers and lock washers on the back.
View attachment 122883
View attachment 122880

This increased the resolution significantly. Everything was more clear and precise while still maintaining the rich enveloping sound.

I had Jonny from Snake River Audio make me custom cables and jumpers for the wiring.

View attachment 122881

I rebuild the crossover using an air-core inductor. I needed to go to a 10 AWG wire to keep the resistance as close to possible as the stock inductor. I also added Dave Slagle’s Speakerformer to attenuate the Voxativ driver. I’m just about to solder it in and mount it.

Adding No-Rez to the metal frame on the inside added a nice step up in overall resolution as well. Mids and highs are so clear while the bass is full and tight.
View attachment 122882
I'm thinking I'm going to cut a piece of wood to cover the hole where the crossover used to fit.

My goal with my system is to sit down and get lost in the music. I have achieved this. Have the clarity to hear all the subtle detail and nuance. The bass to lay down a good foundation. Finally the holographic presentation that has gotten to the hallucinogenic level. Some days it’s like being in a lucid dream.

My dad was telling me about an intimate concert he went to. There was one musician playing the sitar in the center of the audience encircling him. He said after a few minutes he closed his eyes, a few minutes later he was getting visions in his mind that played off of the music. This is the hallucination or psychedelic experience I’m experiencing.

Great thread!
View attachment 122879
I’ve done some mods to my PAP Quintets 1.6 Voxativ

I have them sitting on 3” butcher block. I have Wave Kinetics 2NS isolators Eden Sound brass footers go into the 2NS.

I used Isodamp along the frame where the baffle attaches to the baffle. I also added washers to the bolts so I could tighten the baffle to the frame tighter. The bolts were sinking into the wood so the oversized washer fixed that issue. I added washers and lock washers on the back.
View attachment 122883
View attachment 122880

This increased the resolution significantly. Everything was more clear and precise while still maintaining the rich enveloping sound.

I had Jonny from Snake River Audio make me custom cables and jumpers for the wiring.

View attachment 122881

I rebuild the crossover using an air-core inductor. I needed to go to a 10 AWG wire to keep the resistance as close to possible as the stock inductor. I also added Dave Slagle’s Speakerformer to attenuate the Voxativ driver. I’m just about to solder it in and mount it.

Adding No-Rez to the metal frame on the inside added a nice step up in overall resolution as well. Mids and highs are so clear while the bass is full and tight.
View attachment 122882
I'm thinking I'm going to cut a piece of wood to cover the hole where the crossover used to fit.

My goal with my system is to sit down and get lost in the music. I have achieved this. Have the clarity to hear all the subtle detail and nuance. The bass to lay down a good foundation. Finally the holographic presentation that has gotten to the hallucinogenic level. Some days it’s like being in a lucid dream.

My dad was telling me about an intimate concert he went to. There was one musician playing the sitar in the center of the audience encircling him. He said after a few minutes he closed his eyes, a few minutes later he was getting visions in his mind that played off of the music. This is the hallucination or psychedelic experience I’m experiencing.

Hello
I hadn't taken a good look at your photos.
I see the insulation you applied along the frame.
It gave me the idea of finding cork sheets between 2 and 3 millimetres thick.
So I'm going to put some between all the joints in the frame.
I'm going away for 3 weeks, so I'll do it when I get back and let you know if it's had a beneficial effect.

 

I used NoRez for one side of the frame.

No Rez (Sheets) | GR-Research

gr-research.com

I did try with both sides covered with NoRez and found I preferred only one side covered. If it wasn’t such a chore to reapply and remove the NoRez I might try again now that I’ve changed a few things. I’m also so happy with the sound I’m getting I don’t want to mess with anything major. Only thing that is changing in the near future is I’m getting some custom power supplies from Zayin audio for the field coils. After that I don’t want to mess with anything.

Let us know how the cork between the joints works. I used an impact driver when I put my frame together so it’s extremely tight.

 

I used NoRez for one side of the frame.

No Rez (Sheets) | GR-Research

gr-research.com

I did try with both sides covered with NoRez and found I preferred only one side covered. If it wasn’t such a chore to reapply and remove the NoRez I might try again now that I’ve changed a few things. I’m also so happy with the sound I’m getting I don’t want to mess with anything major. Only thing that is changing in the near future is I’m getting some custom power supplies from Zayin audio for the field coils. After that I don’t want to mess with anything.

Let us know how the cork between the joints works. I used an impact driver when I put my frame together so it’s extremely tight.

I'm going to test it when I get back
In 3 weeks.
Thanks for the link to your insulation.
If cork doesn't work I'll do what you did with your insulation.
I've had my pair of PAPs for a while now
So I've got a lot of things to do to improve it.
For the moment I have not changed anything except that I moved the filter away from the base and I found the message clearer.
Thank you to all those who exchange on this site, it helps.

 

I'm going to test it when I get back
In 3 weeks.
Thanks for the link to your insulation.
If cork doesn't work I'll do what you did with your insulation.
I've had my pair of PAPs for a while now
So I've got a lot of things to do to improve it.
For the moment I have not changed anything except that I moved the filter away from the base and I found the message clearer.
Thank you to all those who exchange on this site, it helps.

Hello
Just to keep you informed of the test I have to do with the cork insulation.
For the moment I had to send back my Voxativ because there was a defect on one of the 2 loudspeakers.
Pure Audio Project was very efficient in taking care of the problem under warranty.
I'm due to receive a new pair on 21 July.
So I won't be able to test the cork insulation straight away, as I'll have to wait for the break-in period to get used to it.
At the moment I haven't had the Voxativs on my speakers for 3 weeks.
See you soon for more information

 

Sorry if this has been covered. Has anyone replaced the compression tweeter. Mine seems to role off hard after 15khz. Too low in my opinion. I also have a large hump around 8khz to 10khz. I am going to try changing the resistors today to tame the hump. But there is nothing outside changing the compression driver I can think of to pick up the early role off.

 

Rex how are you measuring it ? What spec does pap give ?

 

Rex how are you measuring it ? What spec does pap give ?

I ordered a new microphone for my phone. The Dayton one that can be calibrated. I use the phone and "Audio Tools" software. I hold the phone at where my head is. I am going to get a stand to hold the phone

I don't know the PAP spec. But its clear there is a hump at 8khz to 10khz. Then a big fall off at 14kh to 15 khz.

This was taken before the sub was more integrated.

 

I have some resistors to try to knock the hump down. But I have no way to lift the high frequency. I am not sure I can put a new compression driver in. I think its a 1" throat. And the hole pattern may not allow. I would need an adapter made. That could be a problem.

 

I understand better now
the reason to ask pap on a spec he knows it
to change resistors is easy to do but results get complicated.
if you know the spec of the horn at 1m this is on axis and may help your off axis measuring
in nyc infinites specs go way beyond anyone’s hearing
And my irs v have zero tow and 7 feet between tweets
when measured the freq is there but if I run sweeps on various freqs it’s very hit and miss as freq goes above mids by listening
is there a make and model for the horn ?

 

Looking at this graph the graph is very uneven in many places.
the 8 to 10k might be a resonant peak
the fall off does seem fast.
But a typical room sweep does not always need to be flat.
one thing to start is on axis 3 feet back to confirm the output of the driver

 

I have some resistors to try to knock the hump down. But I have no way to lift the high frequency. I am not sure I can put a new compression driver in. I think its a 1" throat. And the hole pattern may not allow. I would need an adapter made. That could be a problem.

You could try placing the coaxial speaker at the top, as speakers quickly experience drops in sound pressure in vertical planes. Then measure and listen again maybe it sounds better.
Or you must change the conzept have idea for that, but i think you would't do that without compression driver in coax
the fostex on a top of baffle same 96db/1watt as coax 10" used pair ~ 650€

Fostex T96A

Das leistungsstarke Superhochtonhorn Fostex T96A basiert auf dem ehemals als limitiertem Sondermodell erhältlichen T96A-RE.

www.megaaudio.de

You need the passive xover anymore only a coil + cap the fostex 12db filter

 

I was showed how this driver uses the one magnet to power both the midrange abd tweeter. The horn tweeter can't be replaced.

I don't hear any great issue. Of course, its stuff you don't know till you hear, or remove something. It just looked bad on the frequency curve. I will use a better mic and run the sweeps again.

At worst, others have bought the exact same midrange without the coax tweeter in the center. No adjustments to the crossover are necessary. Then they place a tweeter to the side.

Maybe some time I try it.

 

I was showed how this driver uses the one magnet to power both the midrange abd tweeter. The horn tweeter can't be replaced.

I don't hear any great issue. Of course, its stuff you don't know till you hear, or remove something. It just looked bad on the frequency curve. I will use a better mic and run the sweeps again.

At worst, others have bought the exact same midrange without the coax tweeter in the center. No adjustments to the crossover are necessary. Then they place a tweeter to the side.

Maybe some time I try it.

You can change all parts at beyma coax its professionell driver , you need only a other 1" diaphargma.
If you want to try the Fostex, remove the diaphragm and you will have only a 10" driver.
1" diaphragms are available from many manufacturers in all imaginable materials. Aluminum, berylium, titanium, polydyne, etc. Only the terminals must fit in the pressure chamber lid.

1" diaphragma horn driver - Google Search

I use 1" horndriver without the lid , then it works as dipole. Advantage reduces distortion that occurs in the pressure chamber