Problems with believability in audio

[sbo6]

Compression is a much bigger problem than most designers will acknowledge. It happens at surprisingly low SPL, especially with lower sensitivity drivers and lossy crossovers.

Crossovers have a big impact on dispersion pattern of the drivers. Ever heard of lobbing?

I agree that compression and radiation pattern will both impact believability significantly and harmonic distortion from the speaker not so much. Earl Geddes did not think that harmonic distortion of compression drivers had any significant impact on perceived sound quality. He felt the horn itself was a much bigger barrier, which is why he came up with his oblate spheroid waveguide/horn to prevent HOMs (High order modes) that cause problems in a lot of other horn types.

Can you elaborate on your definition of compression please?

 

[Newton John]

Of course you can't fit large ensembles in a small room nor would you want a rock band in your room, which would like sound pretty bad.

You'd be amazed. I had a five piece rock band play in my old listening room for a party and they sounded great.

 

[bonzo75]

I haven’t heard a multichannel setup that was in anyway more convincing…not saying it isn’t possible but to date every demo has sounded rather contrived.

MCH with MCH CDs or blurays sounds much better than 2ch digital and quite consistently. Only good analog with good LPs, and the very few stereo set ups I like keep me interested in stereo. Otherwise, I would go MCH, with or without processor, over digital regular hifi

 

[morricab]

Can you elaborate on your definition of compression please?

I do not care to elaborate but thank you for the offer…

 

[morricab]

MCH with MCH CDs or blurays sounds much better than 2ch digital and quite consistently. Only good analog with good LPs, and the very few stereo set ups I like keep me interested in stereo. Otherwise, I would go MCH, with or without processor, over digital regular hifi

Ok, all I can say is that the many multi channel demos I have heard didn’t feel more real…they in fact felt more artificial…

 

[bonzo75]

Ok, all I can say is that the many multi channel demos I have heard didn’t feel more real…they in fact felt more artificial…

Did you hear them with MCH music, and did they have 5 speakers without processor, or many speakers with Auro 3D/Atmos

 

[matthias]

MCH with MCH CDs or blurays sounds much better than 2ch digital and quite consistently. Only good analog with good LPs, and the very few stereo set ups I like keep me interested in stereo. Otherwise, I would go MCH, with or without processor, over digital regular hifi

AFAIK, the MCH or blurays carry also a 2CH which is superior to typically 2CH only productions.

 

[morricab]

Did you hear them with MCH music, and did they have 5 speakers without processor, or many speakers with Auro 3D/Atmos

5 channels without a processor? How would that even work?

 

[bonzo75]

5 channels without a processor? How would that even work?

They have to be placed equidistant from sitting position.

 

[morricab]

Stereo sound from 5 speakers equidistant won't give you a feeling of live music, which would never sound like that.

 

[bonzo75]

Stereo sound from 5 speakers equidistant won't give you a feeling of live music, which would never sound like that.

It sounds better than digital into wilson magico etc. I think whether MCH is more like live or 2 CH with front imaging sounds like live has long been debated, no need to revisit that.

 

[morricab]

It sounds better than digital into wilson magico etc. I think whether MCH is more like live or 2 CH with front imaging sounds like live has long been debated, no need to revisit that.

Doesn't that depend on what kind of speakers the 5ch are and what amps are driving them? What if it is 5 ch of Wilson or Magico? Is that better or worse than 2 ch of the same?

When performers are in front of you, the last thing I want is the feeling that they are now singing or playing from behind me.

 

[bonzo75]

Doesn't that depend on what kind of speakers the 5ch are and what amps are driving them? What if it is 5 ch of Wilson or Magico? Is that better or worse than 2 ch of the same?

Yes I have heard with B&W, another panel speakers that go on the wall whose name escapes me at the mo for some reason - starts with W- those were with processors, Vivid Giyas without. Kal Rubinson is using B&W without processor I believe.

When performers are in front of you, the last thing I want is the feeling that they are now singing or playing from behind me.

That's not how MCH works - rear channels have ambient info, not same info as front channels.

 

[morricab]

Yes I have heard with B&W, another panel speakers that go on the wall whose name escapes me at the mo for some reason - starts with W- those were with processors, Vivid Giyas without. Kal Rubinson is using B&W without processor I believe.



That's now how MCH works - rear channels have ambient info, not same info as front channels.

If you don't have a processor then how are you directing only ambient info into the rear channels?? Doesn't make sense. You HAVE to have a disc with the encoding AND the processor to steer which sound goes where...otherwise you will get instruments and singers all around you.

 

[morricab]

Yes I have heard with B&W, another panel speakers that go on the wall whose name escapes me at the mo for some reason - starts with W- those were with processors, Vivid Giyas without. Kal Rubinson is using B&W without processor I believe.



That's now how MCH works - rear channels have ambient info, not same info as front channels.

Probably Wisdom Audio was the W you couldn't recall...

 

[bonzo75]

Probably Wisdom Audio was the W you couldn't recall...

Ah yes Wisdom. The MCH was quite nice and they are or were quite used in MCH set ups in the UK

 

[bonzo75]

If you don't have a processor then how are you directing only ambient info into the rear channels?? Doesn't make sense. You HAVE to have a disc with the encoding AND the processor to steer which sound goes where...

To clarify - by processing I meant something like Auro 3d/Atmos which processes more than the 5 channels. Even without a processor like those, a multichannnel preamp is required, but is taking 5 channel source into 5 channel pre into 5 amps, or a multichannel dac like exasound.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Sansui quadrophonie preamp + 4 quad 2 tube mono amps and four cornerhorns klipsch
sounded impressively realistic back then, if you had phase 4 recorded LP as source

 

[morricab]

To clarify - by processing I meant something like Auro 3d/Atmos which processes more than the 5 channels. Even without a processor like those, a multichannnel preamp is required, but is taking 5 channel source into 5 channel pre into 5 amps, or a multichannel dac like exasound.

Ok, then there is still a processor in the multichannel DVD player...nevertheless there is always a processor...

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I mentioned a single speaker, only because my other was not matched and sounded different. As for the recordings (which don't have to be a "solo voice"), you are wrong, because you don't take into account how microphones work (they are not omni-directional...). If I followed your logic, i would never listen to single microphone recordings. It would be a shame...

They can be omnidirectional but, even when not, they cannot fail to capture aspects of the recorded space.