Periphery Outer Ring Clamps

XV-1

Active Member
May 24, 2010
1,559
8
38
Sydney
#41
I used to have the VPI HRX with outer ring. Used it all the time , but it was a pita to use all the time.

Bought an Orb LP Flattener to use on any warped lp's. Works a treat.
Orb are the actual manufacturer and rebadge for Air Tight and Furutech

I do not miss not using the outer ring any more
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
6,872
1
38
Northern NY
#42
I used to have the VPI HRX with outer ring. Used it all the time , but it was a pita to use all the time.

Bought an Orb LP Flattener to use on any warped lp's. Works a treat.
Orb are the actual manufacturer and rebadge for Air Tight and Furutech

I do not miss not using the outer ring any more
melting the record to flatten it makes me wonder about possible groove deformation
 

jadis

Active Member
Apr 28, 2010
6,208
0
36
Manila, Philippines
#43
melting the record to flatten it makes me wonder about possible groove deformation
I believe it uses low heat, so not really melting point, and longer time, like a few hours. On huge wavy warps, it will create groove deformation and destroy the record; though technically, a warped record is also non playable.
 

PeterA

Active Member
Dec 7, 2011
4,881
12
38
North Shore of Boston
#44
The Timeline is extremely accurate for checking average speed. Where it and strobes fall down is that none of them can tell what is going on during a specific RPM because they only measure the whole RPM. If you have a turntable that constantly hunts and corrects due to a poorly designed speed control, none of them will tell you. The micro dynamics of music will, however. They won't tell you if the platter slows down or speeds up when it encounters transients in the grooves, either. Your ears will, though. You may be lulled into thinking the music is great, but an A-B with a good turntable will quickly change your mind.

The Timeline is great for setup. That's where it excels. I use a KAB strobe, and follow up with a Timeline. Then, I lock the speed at the controller. I have found that method the best way to get the speed dead on.

That's my opinion...for whatever it's worth.
On another forum, there was quite a discussion about whether or not a turntable could hold speed as the stylus is lowered into the groove. One video shows three styli being lowered. If one's table can not hold speed due to stylus drag, then it is a simple matter of adjusting the speed with the stylus in the groove but it leads one to wonder what happens to speed during very dynamic passages. As you say, one should be able to hear that.
 
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XV-1

Active Member
May 24, 2010
1,559
8
38
Sydney
#45
melting the record to flatten it makes me wonder about possible groove deformation
If it melted the record, do you really think it would work? Or anyone would continue to use them?



You can select any heat cycle from 1 and 2.5 hours - the colder the climate the longer you heat for. The heating plate max temp is 65 C

After heat cycle it cools for 2 hours. Open it and ready to play flat vinyl.

It will not fix deformed vinyl, for example where the vinyl has been in the sun and the groove have been deformed/melted. It fixes all dishing and other warps.

I would not be without mine, given the number of dished 180gm crap that is pressed these days where they don't leave the vinyl to cool down 8 hours before packing etc.

df02-800x800.JPG
 

XV-1

Active Member
May 24, 2010
1,559
8
38
Sydney
#46
I believe it uses low heat, so not really melting point, and longer time, like a few hours. On huge wavy warps, it will create groove deformation and destroy the record; though technically, a warped record is also non playable.
Phil. On huge wavy warps, the LP grooves are already deformed. Flattening will not fix the deformed grooves - all it does is flatten.
The warp has been so severe only 3 times(twice the same Lp I had to give up) - All from that POS clueless record plant called United :mad:

cheers
 
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PeterA

Active Member
Dec 7, 2011
4,881
12
38
North Shore of Boston
#47
Deleted
 
May 7, 2012
1,325
0
0
Seattle area
#48
I used to have the VPI HRX with outer ring. Used it all the time , but it was a pita to use all the time.

Bought an Orb LP Flattener to use on any warped lp's. Works a treat.
Orb are the actual manufacturer and rebadge for Air Tight and Furutech

I do not miss not using the outer ring any more
Had the same ring for a while. I agree it was a pain. Especially if you drop it! It seemed to improve focus, but also sucked the life out of the music at the same time. I preferred the sound without it. Had no problem selling though.

An LP flattener would be nice.
 
May 7, 2012
1,325
0
0
Seattle area
#49
Great post. There's a lot here to discuss.




Based on what I have seen with my turntable, I don't believe the record slips due to stylus drag, but it does slip a bit at start up, if you change records on-the-fly. I don't know if there is any record damage due to metal platters because I chose an acetal surface. I did that because I like how it mates with the record from a resonance standpoint, and because it is a "vinyl friendly" surface that won't scratch records. The downside is that it can pick up abrasions easier than metal. I have a workaround for OCD guys, but I don't worry about it for my personal use. Anyway, a solid surface is less lossy than the alternatives, in my opinion.



A good tonearm with a properly aligned cartridge struts its stuff on marginal records. Fortunately, those who pay thousands for turntables generally insist on flat records. I have found a cheap puck to be useful at times, though.



A periphery ring shouldn't affect anything with a turntable that was built employing a "brute force" principle. I don't know any modern turntables built that way, though. The EMT927, Fairchild Studio 750, and the old Russco models come to mind as ones that do. Of the modern turntables, the better designed ones use managed torque implementations that factor in inertia as precisely as possible. They are balancing acts that are hampered by anything that upsets the proverbial apple cart, and periphery rings certainly do that.



If that owner was saying the Timeline was flawed as an excuse for his table running slow with a ring, he is deluding himself. Of course, it was slow. The Timeline is extremely accurate for checking average speed. Where it and strobes fall down is that none of them can tell what is going on during a specific RPM because they only measure the whole RPM. If you have a turntable that constantly hunts and corrects due to a poorly designed speed control, none of them will tell you. The micro dynamics of music will, however. They won't tell you if the platter slows down or speeds up when it encounters transients in the grooves, either. Your ears will, though. You may be lulled into thinking the music is great, but an A-B with a good turntable will quickly change your mind.

The Timeline is great for setup. That's where it excels. I use a KAB strobe, and follow up with a Timeline. Then, I lock the speed at the controller. I have found that method the best way to get the speed dead on.

That's my opinion...for whatever it's worth.
Nice post. Hard to argue your logic. Servo controlled turntables like my SP10 mk2a can pass the Timeline test but they are still not holding perfect speed between rotations. If we increased the resolution of the Timeline by having it strobe more quickly and more often, say 10 or even 100x more. Then we could get a better sense of what is happening between rotations. Could also do the same thing with the turntable controller to improve it. Probably need a fast computer to make that happen though.
 

XV-1

Active Member
May 24, 2010
1,559
8
38
Sydney
#50
Had the same ring for a while. I agree it was a pain. Especially if you drop it! It seemed to improve focus, but also sucked the life out of the music at the same time. I preferred the sound without it. Had no problem selling though.

An LP flattener would be nice.
I would agree with that as well. The outer ring did suck the " air " out of some LP's more than others. With the VPI you could still use the outer ring with it only connected to the table, which is how I used it quite a bit.

But if you have enough LP's to justify, the lp flattener certainly fixes the warp problem at the source - the lp.

The vinyl flat manual device is supposed to pretty good and a lot cheaper. I know a few who use this with good results.

Of course, if the lp was not warped in the first place would be best. Most of my 100gm LP's from the 80's are perfect. Most of the dished LP's are recent 180gm.

Cheers
 
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rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
6,872
1
38
Northern NY
#52
If it melted the record, do you really think it would work? Or anyone would continue to use them?



You can select any heat cycle from 1 and 2.5 hours - the colder the climate the longer you heat for. The heating plate max temp is 65 C

After heat cycle it cools for 2 hours. Open it and ready to play flat vinyl.

It will not fix deformed vinyl, for example where the vinyl has been in the sun and the groove have been deformed/melted. It fixes all dishing and other warps.

I would not be without mine, given the number of dished 180gm crap that is pressed these days where they don't leave the vinyl to cool down 8 hours before packing etc.

View attachment 18957
Still would make me nervous using one for my best OOP records. Vacuum hold down is the best solution, imo.
 

allvinyl

New Member
Apr 10, 2013
214
0
0
68
Burnsville, MN
#53
Still would make me nervous using one for my best OOP records. Vacuum hold down is the best solution, imo.
To each his own. I inadvertently damaged more records on my vacuum hold down Sota than I ever have using a VPI periphery ring. Come to think of it, I've not damaged an LP using the ring and use it with every LP I play. YMMV.

John
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
6,872
1
38
Northern NY
#54
To each his own. I inadvertently damaged more records on my vacuum hold down Sota than I ever have using a VPI periphery ring. Come to think of it, I've not damaged an LP using the ring and use it with every LP I play. YMMV.

John
I use a ring on my other table. At least with my TechDas, I leave the vac on until platter is stopped. I'm confused on how it's possible for the vacuum hold down to damage a record.
 

Dre_J

Industry Expert
Mar 6, 2012
478
0
0
#55
I use a ring on my other table. At least with my TechDas, I leave the vac on until platter is stopped. I'm confused on how it's possible for the vacuum hold down to damage a record.
There is a delicate balance between vacuum pressure, how clean you keep the platter and the platter material. I'm guessing just enough vacuum pressure to hold the record flat is better than a Hoover.
 

jadis

Active Member
Apr 28, 2010
6,208
0
36
Manila, Philippines
#57
Phil. On huge wavy warps, the LP grooves are already deformed. Flattening will not fix the deformed grooves - all it does is flatten.
The warp has been so severe only 3 times(twice the same Lp I had to give up) - All from that POS clueless record plant called United :mad:

cheers
XV-1, that's quite true. I had 2 huge wave warped lps that I brought over to a friend with this flattener. When they were done with the procedure, the records were flap, but they were not a perfect circle anymore. Slightly oblong. I dare not hit my Koetsu on them. :D
 

jadis

Active Member
Apr 28, 2010
6,208
0
36
Manila, Philippines
#58
Still would make me nervous using one for my best OOP records. Vacuum hold down is the best solution, imo.
Or, if you can wait 3-4 months without touching the OOP LP, leave it in a shelf tightly with other LPs, to create a 'clamping' effect. I has worked for me the past 5 years. Goodbye sun, glass sheets, over, and saved on the heater/flattener. :)
 

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