advice sought, turntables $10-20k

[Ricco275]

I’m a happy LP12 owner. Upgraded through the year and now top specs except the tonearm being an Ekos SE/1 and cartridge Hana ML.

I’m tempted moving to a maintenance almost free deck. I may need to relocate and can’t be bothered again to find a good technician to set it up well. Living in paris and it’s just a nightmare with very expensive not skilled techs.

wondering if direct drive would make me happy. Simple and clean design is crucial. Thrax Yarus and Technics SL1000R on the radar. The latter too expensive though. Brinkmann Taurus not keen on the external bit with Taurus wording.

any advice? Someone been there too?

 

[Yeti]

I’m a happy LP12 owner. Upgraded through the year and now top specs except the tonearm being an Ekos SE/1 and cartridge Hana ML.

I’m tempted moving to a maintenance almost free deck. I may need to relocate and can’t be bothered again to find a good technician to set it up well. Living in paris and it’s just a nightmare with very expensive not skilled techs.

wondering if direct drive would make me happy. Simple and clean design is crucial. Thrax Yarus and Technics SL1000R on the radar. The latter too expensive though. Brinkmann Taurus not keen on the external bit with Taurus wording.

any advice? Someone been there too?

Vinyl in Paris brings Ana Mighty Sound to mind, probably worth contacting them to arrange a session listening to a few decks including the PTP ones.
Also consider a Well Tempered Versalex if coming from a Linn but I don’t know where to find those in Paris. My now retired UK dealer abandoned his own Radicalised Linn for one of these and a DVx1t.
Then there’s the new Rega Naia for about as plug and play as it gets.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

Before you move-off…

Install the cheap and reversible AUDIO SILENTE SILICONE MUSHROOMS to replace the LINN springs.

By doing so, you will finally hear all of what the LP12 is sonically capable - and never again have to worry about fiddling with the set-up.

You won’t miss the infernal bounce either… promise!

Less than $100… what have you got to lose?

 

[Ricco275]

Vinyl in Paris brings Ana Mighty Sound to mind, probably worth contacting them to arrange a session listening to a few decks including the PTP ones.
Also consider a Well Tempered Versalex if coming from a Linn but I don’t know where to find those in Paris. My now retired UK dealer abandoned his own Radicalised Linn for one of these and a DVx1t.
Then there’s the new Rega Naia for about as plug and play as it gets.

François from Anamighty is a friend. I’d like something good at least as my LP12 full specs. Not going to spend crazy (for me) money on a Dohmann and don’t fancy AMG. Thrax on paper seems a good option as was looking for users’ feedback

 

[Ricco275]

Before you move-off…

Install the cheap and reversible AUDIO SILENTE SILICONE MUSHROOMS to replace the LINN springs.

By doing so, you will finally hear all of what the LP12 is sonically capable - and never again have to worry about fiddling with the set-up.

You won’t miss the infernal bounce either… promise!

Less than $100… what have you got to lose?

Never heard about it. Will get more info about it. Thanks for sharing. Still I imagine when moving the deck around and disassembling it I’d need to re-tune it?

 

[Yeti]

Yes I rather liked the Dohmann too, just out of reach when I heard it and now well out of reach since the price increase. None of his other decks quite grabbed me as much. Still the Artemis is working well after re-oiling so no need to consider a replacement now and the PTP I’m building is just for fun, I’m intrigued as to how well it will perform. François considers them his entry level as supplied by Peter complete. I’m mining Frank Schröder’s bamboo idea for inspiration for mine.

 

[Solypsa]

François from Anamighty is a friend. I’d like something good at least as my LP12 full specs. Not going to spend crazy (for me) money on a Dohmann and don’t fancy AMG. Thrax on paper seems a good option as was looking for users’ feedback

Did you listen to STST?

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

I’m a happy LP12 owner. Upgraded through the year and now top specs except the tonearm being an Ekos SE/1 and cartridge Hana ML.

I’m tempted moving to a maintenance almost free deck. I may need to relocate and can’t be bothered again to find a good technician to set it up well. Living in paris and it’s just a nightmare with very expensive not skilled techs.

wondering if direct drive would make me happy. Simple and clean design is crucial. Thrax Yarus and Technics SL1000R on the radar. The latter too expensive though. Brinkmann Taurus not keen on the external bit with Taurus wording.

any advice? Someone been there too?

The Kuzma range of TTs and Tonearms are pretty much maintenance free certainly for an estimated 3 to 5+ years before belts & bearing oil may need changing. You can also choose a Kuzma cartridge fully set-up with the TT and Tonearm by Kuzma before it is delivered to you if you buy a full Kuzma TT set-up. The Kuzma TT set-ups from the bottom of the range to the top of the range have superb and very solid build quality, easy to set-up and operate and will last for many years of pleasurable operation.

 

[Ricco275]

Did you listen to STST?

Not yet. I’m not convinced by the look as it seems to me a poor copy of the LP12. I will listen to it in the next days. I may end up with an SP10 mkiii and acoustic stand plinth.

 

[Ricco275]

The Kuzma range of TTs and Tonearms are pretty much maintenance free certainly for an estimated 3 to 5+ years before belts & bearing oil may need changing. You can also choose a Kuzma cartridge fully set-up with the TT and Tonearm by Kuzma before it is delivered to you if you buy a full Kuzma TT set-up. The Kuzma TT set-ups from the bottom of the range to the top of the range have superb and very solid build quality, easy to set-up and operate and will last for many years of pleasurable operation.

On my list since long time. Thanks

 

[Solypsa]

Not yet. I’m not convinced by the look as it seems to me a poor copy of the LP12. I will listen to it in the next days. I may end up with an SP10 mkiii and acoustic stand plinth.

Not much to do with an LP12 imho other than the 'II' is suspended. Do check them out at Ana... ( both unsuspended and suspended versions )

Build quality is very high...esp if you have looked under the hood of an LP12 to compare.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

Never heard about it. Will get more info about it. Thanks for sharing. Still I imagine when moving the deck around and disassembling it I’d need to re-tune it?

There is no "tuning" involved. It is just a very simple process of levelling. A one-off task.

Whilst the AUDIO SILENTE SILICONE MUSHROOMS still provide a serious degree of suspension - and thereby, isolation - the sub-chassis travel becomes extremely limited.

If you have access to a light strobe, you will see that a normal sprung LP12 delivers a constant flow of minute flutter movements - back and forth - as the deck tries to maintain constant speed. This is due to the motor and the springs constantly fighting each other in a tug-of-war - via the stretchy rubber belt - and as a result, the sub-chassis being subtly twisting back and forth, back and forth and so on. This wreaks havoc on the speed flow and therefore the sound.

This flutter just disappears with the mushrooms, delivering a constant speed - and the silicone perfectly seated against the sub-chassis, serves to further eliminate motor and bearing noise from reaching the stylus.

So, once the mushrooms are set-up to provide ideal armboard height - that is, with the armboard perfectly positioned in relation to the plinth - there is very little that can move thereafter.

You're going to be shocked at how good it sounds.

Best of all, it still sounds like an LP12... but an LP12 for grown-ups!

Hard to describe, but very easy to hear.

Read more here...
AUDIO SILENTE SILICONE MUSHROOMS for LINN SONDEK LP12

 

[Solypsa]

Does seem like a prudent experiment

 

[SONDEKNZ]

Does seem like a prudent experiment

It wasn't my idea, but I have spread the word globally - and to my knowledge, nobody has reverted to the springs.

The sound improvement is just so patently obvious.

 

[Ricco275]

There is no "tuning" involved. It is just a very simple process of levelling. A one-off task.

Whilst the AUDIO SILENTE SILICONE MUSHROOMS still provide a serious degree of suspension - and thereby, isolation - the sub-chassis travel becomes extremely limited.

If you have access to a light strobe, you will see that a normal sprung LP12 delivers a constant flow of minute flutter movements - back and forth - as the deck tries to maintain constant speed. This is due to the motor and the springs constantly fighting each other in a tug-of-war - via the stretchy rubber belt - and as a result, the sub-chassis being subtly twisting back and forth, back and forth and so on. This wreaks havoc on the speed flow and therefore the sound.

This flutter just disappears with the mushrooms, delivering a constant speed - and the silicone perfectly seated against the sub-chassis, serves to further eliminate motor and bearing noise from reaching the stylus.

So, once the mushrooms are set-up to provide ideal armboard height - that is, with the armboard perfectly positioned in relation to the plinth - there is very little that can move thereafter.

You're going to be shocked at how good it sounds.

Best of all, it still sounds like an LP12... but an LP12 for grown-ups!

Hard to describe, but very easy to hear.

Read more here...
AUDIO SILENTE SILICONE MUSHROOMS for LINN SONDEK LP12

So if I have to disassemble the deck for a move and I put it back together, I don’t need to have a tech to set it up properly again? That’s what Linn recommends when you seriously move it around.

 

[Solypsa]

You will still need to attend to some setup, of course when the tonearm is removed and reinstalled then cart alignment needs to be double checked, etc.


Getting the dreaded spring bounce dialed in would no longer be on the list of projects

 

[SONDEKNZ]

So if I have to disassemble the deck for a move and I put it back together, I don’t need to have a tech to set it up properly again? That’s what Linn recommends when you seriously move it around.

Of course, there are significant global revenues to be generated by insisting on LP12 "tuning" by a specialist - but quite honestly, it is totally unnecessary.

We shipped our beloved LP12 from New Zealand to China and simply removed the outer platter - and left the sub-platter in the bearing, but raised about 10mm and "chocked" with firm polystyrene slabs. This prevented bearing "bounce" damage but ensured that the sub-platter was held rigidly.

Our ITTOK LVII tonearm was left in position and secured to its post - with packaging surrounding it to limit any movement.

Our SHELTER 501/II cartridge was removed and safely stowed.

The original late 1980s packaging provided the type of shipping in which the deck originally arrived from Scotland.

It took about 12-months to ship during the worst of COVID, but when it arrived, the quick assembly job saw the turntable playing perfectly, within 60-minutes - and most of that was spent aligning the cartridge.

...And that was when we had the LINN springs installed! There's a whole lot less to worry about, once the springs are gone.

In a nutshell, the LP12 design is a lot simpler than most owners realise. There is nothing wrong with getting an expert involved, but it is not necessary for anyone, who is even slightly handy.

This becomes even more the case, once the springs are gone and the AUDIO SILENTE SILICONE MUSHROOMS have removed a lot of the (IMHO unnecessary) movement in the LP12's internal support structure.

Please feel free to PM me if you have any concerns.

 

[Another Johnson]

Of course, there are significant global revenues to be generated by insisting on LP12 "tuning" by a specialist - but quite honestly, it is totally unnecessary.

Ten years ago I would have agreed. But today my experience contradicts this assertion.

Aside from the fact that NO global revenues accrue to Linn for requiring the authorized dealer to set it up, the range of sound quality to come out of an LP12 based on setup issues is huge. I think this is why the interest in abandoning the Linn suspension appears to be proportional to the distance from Glasgow.

I moved my first LP12 from house to house and state to state many times in the manner described above. I always set it up myself, and I thought it always sounded good. I’d been trained in setup and did it as a courtesy for others back in the mid ‘80s, so I was always confident.

My LP12 life changed with my introduction to Peter Swain of Cymbiosis. He shared an incredible amount of LP12 knowledge and I was a good student.

I began a journey of LP12 building, upgrading, and repair, including the testing of many aftermarket parts. I have the full Linn tool kit, including the set up fixture. Up until 2022, I recognized how big an impact setup can have. It is what takes the good LP12 to great status.

But in 2022 I had another epiphanic episode. I wanted to have the Karousel bearing kit installed, and I was going to be in Ann Arbor anyway, so I arranged to have Tom O’Keefe acquire one for me and install it. Tom has now retired, but he was working at Overture Audio. Tom’s skills are legendary and I was a skeptic. I wanted to hear if he could better my own best work.

I was in for a rude awakening… my own work sounded really good to me and to my guests. But Tom’s work blew me away. I suppose we could attribute the exceptional step up to the Karousel kit. But I had Tom do my second LP12 just before he retired, and all he did was setup … no parts upgrades. It was impressively audible again.

No one, myself included, likes to think that their beloved system isn’t very close to live music. But it’s not. There are steps up in every system. Your personal reference changes as you become educated. Your reference moves up, and so do your expectations, but the hard stop for reference is remarkably upwardly mobile.

I agree that you can move LP12s around with proper care. I’ve transported mine 550 miles in returning home after Tom’s work with no ill effect. But I have a profound respect for world class setup. Both Tom and Peter have devoted their lives to understanding the LP12, and I’m a personal beneficiary of their devotion.

 

[sktn77a]

I think the issue with "dealer setup" is one of repetition, rather than anything else. Peter swain and Tom O'keef have set up hundreds, maybe thousands of LP12s. I have had one for over 40 years but have probably set it up about half a dozen time - that's 8-10 years between each setup. Undoubtedly, I have forgotten any setup insights during each hiatus. These guys basically do it for a living - they had better be good at it!

 

[Another Johnson]

I’ve learned from both. I have built at least five LP12s from scratch. I’ve probably done setup more than 25 times for myself and others.

I agree that Peter and Tom have the edge in experience. But each has a certain amount of unusually strong discernment too. My cap is tipped.