Natural Sound

[microstrip]

No sound is close to live music/sound, no tube amplifier sounds like live music and no solidstate amplifier sounds like live music, no digital sounds like live music and no analag turntable sounds like live music, all audio systems have their own sound .

Just say no stereo. The intrinsic limitation is the system, not the gear. The information captured in a stereo recording is not able to fill our rooms with a facsimile of a live experience.

Music listening experience is also not related to live music, the sound of live music many times is not engaging.

We could say that many times sound reproduction is not engaging ...

The important key is which audio systems can change our mind/body after listening to music, actually the key is our emotional reaction to music not our reaction to sound and comparing the sound with live music or …

It is why it is important to find what creates such emotions. And some people do not compare sound reproduction with life sound for fun, they use it as a tool to perfect their systems according to their preferences. Probably not to your or mine preferences.

I think both Vladimir Lamm and David @ddk opinion about better sound is very very good idea, I do not describe what “Natural Sound” means or I do not compare Natural sound vs live sound.
The important thing is what David @ddk thinks is right and trusted.

Unfortunately, as far as I know, the Lamm "natural sound " concept was buried with its creator. Vladimir Lamm never documented his models, all we have are a few interviews used mainly for marketing.

David in an expert is system assembly and tuning with strong opinions. As far as I remember he never addressed real music.

 

[Amir]

Amir, in this case enjoyment or not enjoyment of live music is not really the point. This just obfuscates the issue about how realistic can the sound be.

I guess it depends on the value you place on getting closer to live sound because for enjoyment, I agree that can be had with extremely modest playback.

Brad,

this is your question : “How realistic can the sound be?”

My answer: this is not my question because I believe the relation of “more realistic sound” and music experience” are two different subjects”.
I think about my reaction to music not my reaction to the sound.

I share my answer to your question :
I can say we are humans (non-linear hearing system and super complex brain) so any answer to your question will be in “subjective domain” not “objective domain” so you will get different answers. Kedar, Peter, Tima, … will say analog/tube/horns are more realistic sound and Microstrip will say digital/solidstate/cone are more realistic sound. This subjective debate never ends.



I say more realistic sound gives you more contrast between records. (Comparison by contrast method)

Are You On The Road To... Audio Hell? Article By Leonard Norwitz And Peter Qvortrup

Are You On The Road To... Audio Hell? Article By Leonard Norwitz And Peter Qvortrup

www.enjoythemusic.com

 

[Amir]

Just say no stereo. The intrinsic limitation is the system, not the gear. The information captured in a stereo recording is not able to fill our rooms with a facsimile of a live experience.

I read about stereo crosstalk cancellation and also multichannel systems like Auro 3D sound. I do not have valid experience in this regard but I guess those can give better 3D feeling and can not reproduce full dynamic range of live performance. The speaker technology and also other technology limits do not allow to get full dynamics of live performance.

Unfortunately, as far as I know, the Lamm "natural sound " concept was buried with its creator. Vladimir Lamm never documented his models, all we have are a few interviews used mainly for marketing.

David in an expert is system assembly and tuning with strong opinions. As far as I remember he never addressed real music.

I do not care if “Natural sound” was marketing hype or not, what I think is David @ddk idea about better sound is very good idea. I trust David @ddk so I ask my questions from him when I do not know about a component.

 

[morricab]

Brad,

this is your question : “How realistic can the sound be?”

My answer: this is not my question because I believe the relation of “more realistic sound” and music experience” are two different subjects”.
I think about my reaction to music not my reaction to the sound.

I share my answer to your question :
I can say we are humans (non-linear hearing system and super complex brain) so any answer to your question will be in “subjective domain” not “objective domain” so you will get different answers. Kedar, Peter, Tima, … will say analog/tube/horns are more realistic sound and Microstrip will say digital/solidstate/cone are more realistic sound. This subjective debate never ends.



I say more realistic sound gives you more contrast between records. (Comparison by contrast method)

Are You On The Road To... Audio Hell? Article By Leonard Norwitz And Peter Qvortrup

Are You On The Road To... Audio Hell? Article By Leonard Norwitz And Peter Qvortrup

www.enjoythemusic.com

There are flaws in the compare by contrast method. Plenty of highly analytical and unmusical systems can give you huge contrast between recordings…that doesn’t mean any of it is correct, just differentiated. Many audiophiles mistake differentiation for correct sound.
By contrast (pun intended), a low differentiating system can still sound very pleasant and emotional (my wife can still cry from music coming out of her JBL pill). I know what Peter Q’s intentions are with this method but it is possible to throw the baby out with the bath water using it.

 

[Amir]

There are flaws in the compare by contrast method. Plenty of highly analytical and unmusical systems can give you huge contrast between recordings…that doesn’t mean any of it is correct, just differentiated. Many audiophiles mistake differentiation for correct sound. By contrast (pun intended), a low differentiating system can still sound very pleasant and emotional (my wife can still cry from music coming out of her JBL pill). I know what Peter Q’s intentions are with this method but it is possible to throw the baby out with the bath water using it.

Brad, I disagree with you, if you use comparison by contrast method you will find her JBL shows more contrast than many expensive modern sharp speakers, I guess you never used this method because this method shows small budget price 2way paper cone speakers like Living Voice and Audio Note UK AN-E shows more contrast between records than even 3way big gryphon trident speakers. If your wife still cry when JBL play music it means JBL shows more contrast specially in micro dynamics. Sharpness is different to contrast.

There are also high performance modern digital solidstate systems that shows good contrast between records but it does not mean those systems are highly analytical and unmusical systems. I think over 90% of highly analytical and unmusical sound comes from wrong speaker placement and poor ac power quality and poor grounding installation.

This subjective comparison by contrast method is very good idea for comparing audio equipments.

 

[PeterA]

I also thanks Ralph @Atmasphere for sharing his electronic information in this forum

Yes. He claims his target is natural sound. He should start his own system thread and share with us how his choices for balanced technology and his gear and set up methods achieve his lifelong goal. That would be fascinating. Lamm designs are an alternative approach.

 

[PeterA]

Is anyone here trying to achieve “unnatural sound” ?

Great question. Insight can be gleaned from some of the responses in the thread I started asking others the differences they hear between vinyl and digital.

There are also the comments from others who tell us that live music is NOT their reference or even that reprodroced music is “nothing like” live music.