Maybe it's better not to know

[ddk]

Just out of curiosity, what electronics does he drive his LV system with?

All Kondo electronics, the main speakers were biamped with 2 pairs of Gakuoh or Kegon amps, subs are active.

david

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, I've heard some magnificent systems.
Vyger, Red Sparrow, TMayer, Pnoes.
Lampi, 211s, modded Graz Duettas.
Sony DD, Allnic/Concert Fidelity, modded ML Spires.
And most recently yesterday Aqua, SGM, AGDuos.
Yes Dave, no way of putting these genies back in the bottle.
Luckily, not haunted, just more data points, and plenty of food for thought.

 

[cjfrbw]

No need to be haunted but once heard it can't be unheard...

You old tease, you.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

The Munich system with full Vox Olympian /Elyssian + Kondo + Battery power system is pretty mature and it was very clear what the source and electronics bring to the quality and believability of the sound.

never been to Munich. but I would expect most mega speaker based systems at Munich are less close to optimization than what you describe with the Vox. so it makes my point stronger, that other fully sorted out mega speaker based systems will get closer......and speakers have less distinction as systems overall improve. other factors make more differences.

I have no doubt that for those who 'get' the Kondo-Vox approach it is sublime. never heard it myself.

 

[GMKF]

Well, I've heard some magnificent systems.
Vyger, Red Sparrow, TMayer, Pnoes.
Lampi, 211s, modded Graz Duettas.
Sony DD, Allnic/Concert Fidelity, modded ML Spires.
And most recently yesterday Aqua, SGM, AGDuos.
Yes Dave, no way of putting these genies back in the bottle.
Luckily, not haunted, just more data points, and plenty of food for thought.

How was the Soulution + field coil system you talked about in some thread ?
Or is that listening session still in the future

 

[cjfrbw]

never been to Munich. but I would expect most mega speaker based systems at Munich are less close to optimization than what you describe with the Vox. so it makes my point stronger, that other fully sorted out mega speaker based systems will get closer......and speakers have less distinction as systems overall improve. other factors make more differences.

I have no doubt that for those who 'get' the Kondo-Vox approach it is sublime. never heard it myself.

Hmm, find myself agreeing with Mikel here. Bookmark it, may not happen again for a while.

 

[morricab]

You old tease, you.

What? Me...

 

[morricab]

never been to Munich. but I would expect most mega speaker based systems at Munich are less close to optimization than what you describe with the Vox. so it makes my point stronger, that other fully sorted out mega speaker based systems will get closer......and speakers have less distinction as systems overall improve. other factors make more differences.

I have no doubt that for those who 'get' the Kondo-Vox approach it is sublime. never heard it myself.

It doesn't make your point stronger. Mike. That's a fallacy to think because one supersystem is benefiting at Munich from optimization that they would all equally benefit and converge in SQ. This has the implicit assumption that all mega gear is actually really good and has the same potential (it doesn't) for SQ. You are also assuming that all systems CAN be optimized in Munich rooms and with Munich power (unless they all adopt battery banks like LV, they can't). Keep in mind, for just one example, that a horn like LV has a very different dispersion pattern and therefore room influence is different from virtually all conventional speakers.

 

[spiritofmusic]

GM, it's going to happen in the next few weeks
However at £75-100k per pair, I suspect they'll never happen.
The systems I mentioned were so good because
1- they all offered a singular view on audio playback (and all v different from each other)
2- all brilliantly configured in their rooms
3- all fully optimised and sorted
4- all v representative of their owners
I'm just a couple of levels behind these guys.

 

[ddk]

dear Tang,

likely more different than better/worse.

speakers do dominate our system preconceptions and expectations, but are simply enablers to the total room equation and signal path......both of which are just as key. your taste for the Kondo 'flavor' will be significant.

it's one thing to hear the VOX in Munich where no system is mature and speakers dominate, but in the context of other fully mature systems it's not as likely to jump out as singular. at the top of the room/system food chain there are simply so many variables.

just my 2 cents.

best regards,

Mike

In this case they do Mike, the VOX is made up of reproduction Vitavox drivers that will sound right only with SETs or some low powered tube amp therefore dictating the nature of the system. The Wilson couldn’t be any further away from the VOX in design and sound, it’s design requires higher power and current. The same or similar sources were in use in these two rooms but everything was different including visually, the speakers did completely dominate at the top of the room/system chain.

david

 

[morricab]

GM, it's going to happen in the next few weeks
However at £75-100k per pair, I suspect they'll never happen.
The systems I mentioned were so good because
1- they all offered a singular view on audio playback (and all v different from each other)
2- all brilliantly configured in their rooms
3- all fully optimised and sorted
4- all v representative of their owners
I'm just a couple of levels behind these guys.

You could pickup some Duos for not so big money and would mate well with your NAT rig (overkill power but what the heck). One limit might be noise because I found that NAT has quite high gain, my Plasma pre especially, and noise on my horns was a bit of an issue.

Duos driven right are very good and tough to beat at that money. Maybe a Bastanis Matterhorn w/Gemini tweeter and dipole subs would be competitive.

 

[KeithR]

It doesn't make your point stronger. Mike. That's a fallacy to think because one supersystem is benefiting at Munich from optimization that they would all equally benefit and converge in SQ. This has the implicit assumption that all mega gear is actually really good and has the same potential (it doesn't) for SQ. You are also assuming that all systems CAN be optimized in Munich rooms and with Munich power (unless they all adopt battery banks like LV, they can't). Keep in mind, for just one example, that a horn like LV has a very different dispersion pattern and therefore room influence is different from virtually all conventional speakers.

Dumb question - have you ever heard a mega system in a room like MikeLs?

 

[microstrip]

The Munich system with full Vox Olympian /Elyssian + Kondo + Battery power system is pretty mature and it was very clear what the source and electronics bring to the quality and believability of the sound.

I know it is me, but although I read with interest show reports, the weighting factor is very low. I have found since long that opinions from shows are too limited and diverse to be reliable. The nice thing of internet is that with a little help of the search engines we are able to find the opinions that support our point of view and feel very comfortable ...

 

[cjfrbw]

I know it is me, but although I read with interest show reports, the weighting factor is very low. I have found since long that opinions from shows are too limited and diverse to be reliable. The nice thing of internet is that with a little help of the search engines we are able to find the opinions that support our point of view and feel very comfortable ...

Yes. I find that with extreme research and selectivity, I can assemble an internet Star Chamber that agrees with everything I say, on penalty of death and dismemberment.

No pressure, just IMHO.

 

[NorthStar]

 

[spiritofmusic]

Brad, it's interesting you say that about Nat.
If my Zus have a critical drawback, it's a certain gritty texture/greyness/lack of smoothness/opaqueness that holds them back from being truly uncoloured/neutral/transparent.
I'm sure that if Nats are not dead quiet as well, this contributes to a higher level of underlying noise.
Certainly I'm aware there is some veiling when listening to classical.

Hence I have been considering a very lower power high quality SS option like the Pass Labs XA25 stereo amp, or this plus a move to horns.
Looking at Sadurni or Haigner in the first instance, I'm wary of horns/woofers bass as in the Duos.

 

[PeterA]

Brad, it's interesting you say that about Nat.
If my Zus have a critical drawback, it's a certain gritty texture/greyness/lack of smoothness/opaqueness that holds them back from being truly uncoloured/neutral/transparent.
I'm sure that if Nats are not dead quiet as well, this contributes to a higher level of underlying noise.
Certainly I'm aware there is some veiling when listening to classical.

Hence I have been considering a very lower power high quality SS option like the Pass Labs XA25 stereo amp, or this plus a move to horns.
Looking at Sadurni or Haigner in the first instance, I'm wary of horns/woofers bass as in the Duos.

Maybe it’s better not to know, Marc.

 

[spiritofmusic]

V good Peter, nice circular link to the subject of this thread.

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

Brad, it's interesting you say that about Nat.
If my Zus have a critical drawback, it's a certain gritty texture/greyness/lack of smoothness/opaqueness that holds them back from being truly uncoloured/neutral/transparent.
I'm sure that if Nats are not dead quiet as well, this contributes to a higher level of underlying noise.
Certainly I'm aware there is some veiling when listening to classical.

Hence I have been considering a very lower power high quality SS option like the Pass Labs XA25 stereo amp, or this plus a move to horns.
Looking at Sadurni or Haigner in the first instance, I'm wary of horns/woofers bass as in the Duos.

I would get some Miracoli horns from Sadurni. They are very affordable by horn standards and is one of the best affordable horn designs. You will never miss your ZU's I promise you that.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sadurni is absolutely on my radar.
I had been following the Staccato for a while now, but certainly the Miracoli looks the business too.