Maybe it's better not to know

spiritofmusic

Member Sponsor
Jun 13, 2013
6,410
63
48
E. England
#1
So many interesting comparisons out there that will never happen.

Two bleeding edge SOTA tts that can justifiably be called world's best, AS2000 and Vyger.
A side by side highly unlikely to happen.
We'll never know who's King.

Stacore v Taiko Tana, both absolutely ground breaking passive and active isolation methods. No-one is going to try both.

I'm sure there are many more bleeding edge comparisons too.
Top MSB v Aries Cerat v Wadax digital
Etc etc etc.
And in some ways I'm glad, I actually don't want any definitive verdicts.

Its great to know AS is cleaning up in Asia, Vyger pretty big in Europe.
It's nice to lust after both, with the deep mystery no-one will ever know which is truly Top Dog.
 

spiritofmusic

Member Sponsor
Jun 13, 2013
6,410
63
48
E. England
#3
My point is maybe some things better left unsaid.
 
Oct 6, 2015
75
0
6
#5
World´s best in audio is a pretty relative term, your world´s best will most likely not coincide with mine and in the unlikely event they do, they might be outclassed by a new world´s best in a short time since new players are always arriving to the game. It´s impossible even for reviewers to listen to everything so in the end nobody will ever know.

I personally can´t agree ignorance is bliss, life would be much easier if we knew what to strive for instead of jumping from component to component in an effort to reach an end line which is always being moved.
 

spiritofmusic

Member Sponsor
Jun 13, 2013
6,410
63
48
E. England
#6
My point Narayan is that some really interesting comparisons of gear at the absolute bleeding edge are just never going to happen.

And even if they do, I cannot see the lucky host of the comparison making any definitive statements.

Discretion and politics will be the order of the day.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
5,201
85
48
Beverly Hills, CA
#7
I’ll give you another one Marc: CMS versus HRS racks.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
4,931
34
48
North Shore of Boston
#9
So many interesting comparisons out there that will never happen.

Two bleeding edge SOTA tts that can justifiably be called world's best, AS2000 and Vyger.
A side by side highly unlikely to happen.
We'll never know who's King.

Stacore v Taiko Tana, both absolutely ground breaking passive and active isolation methods. No-one is going to try both.

I'm sure there are many more bleeding edge comparisons too.
Top MSB v Aries Cerat v Wadax digital
Etc etc etc.
And in some ways I'm glad, I actually don't want any definitive verdicts.

Its great to know AS is cleaning up in Asia, Vyger pretty big in Europe.
It's nice to lust after both, with the deep mystery no-one will ever know which is truly Top Dog.
Marc, what makes you think that even if someone were to make such a comparison that it would lead to a declared or definitive verdict? It would only be one person's opinion and there will never be enough witnesses to form a consensus. There would even be disagreement about which components to nominate for such a comparison, in any category.
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
1,918
116
63
Bangkok
#10
I hope I never hear Vox Olympian or Wilson Whamm Chrono. Would make me sad listening to my great speakers...
Those SPUs you have really sound beautiful on horns. Great horns are a lot less expensive than conventional box speakers. No need super expensive horns like Living Voice or Cessaro. The rare vintage ones could sound even better than the modern ones and can go up in value too. Get a fresh start with your new house Christian.

Tang :)
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
6,881
5
38
Northern NY
#11
Those SPUs you have really sound beautiful on horns. Great horns are a lot less expensive than conventional box speakers. No need super expensive horns like Living Voice or Cessaro. The rare vintage ones could sound even better than the modern ones and can go up in value too. Get a fresh start with your new house Christian.

Tang :)
The WE's are unfortunately a little too big for the décor unfortunately. WAF violation.
 

DaveyF

Active Member
Aug 1, 2010
5,729
17
38
La Jolla, Calif USA
#12
Knowing what is best today, (whatever happens to be one's definition of best in relation to an audio component) is going to be a short lived exercise. Today's 'best' turntable is not going to be the best five years from now or ten years from now,, etc. I think this applies to all gear as a generality. Therefore, IF one comes across a piece that really floats your boat-- and happens to generally considered to be in the upper echelon of today's gear, that doesn't mean to say it will be considered as such in a few ....months, years etc., This most likely applies to the particular part of the hobby that is more correlated to technological improvements...for example digital gear, than say tube gear; but I think the same principal applies to both, except the digital gear has a shorter shelf life.
Now I know that there are people in this hobby that believe that nothing has progressed since the early to mid sixties in this hobby, but I think most of us do see that this is a 'blinkered' opinion and not reality..and certainly NOT a universal, as they would have us believe.

Oddly enough, in Pro Audio, guitar amp design and in some cases- guitar's themselves, have actually not improved since the sixties or even earlier....as evidenced by the highly sought after Black face/ Tweed Fenders from that period, along with the highly sought after Fender guitars from the same ( and earlier) era. Has this to do with the point to point wiring and the more simplistic/higher quality parts that were used, i believe it does. Nonetheless,I don't believe this is the case with high end audio.
 

JackD201

[WBF Founding Member]
Apr 21, 2010
11,031
22
38
Manila, Philippines
#13
I personally think all knowledge is good. Personally, I'm hardly ever bothered by what's new or what may be better than what I have because the bulk of my energy goes towards learning about what I already have and how I can optimize these pieces to fit my own requirements.

I do wish that people would be a little braver with their gear. I don't mean opening up and modding them unless of course one actually knows how to do this without doing more harm than good. I mean experimenting with set up on one's own time. A good way to jumpstart this would be to get someone experienced to help and then observe keenly. Heck ask as many questions as you can to get a handle on the causes and effects of things. One can always mark or note the experts settings so one can go back to these but by all means play away. I believe that it is only by going through this process that anybody can definitively understand the limits of his or her system, what it can do but maybe more importantly, what it can't. Gotta know what limitations you can live with and what you can't. For analog for example there has got to be a feature in there that keeps my records flat and do so easily. If it doesn't I'm just not interested. To me it is a fundamental requirement that the cart runs on the best road possible. Sadly this knocks a lot of erstwhile great products off my list but fortunately vintage or new there are options be it as far left of field as the massive counterweight, concave platter Teragakis from the past to current offerings. When I do hit the wall, as I did not getting the performance I wanted out of LP playback with tables that couldn't keep my records as flat as I'd like with ease, then it was certainly a benefit to me to have an idea of what to look elsewhere for. I already knew that the cause for the groove noise, the inconsistency of transients and in extreme cases audible wow and flutter was caused by warpage and the analog system not sufficiently dealing with it. I knew because I pretty much traced everything back to that fundamental by trying practically everything else. In all instances, every change I've made has been based expanding on the performance envelope and then going through the process of refining and tailoring the sound to my satisfaction. It's no surprise then that I personally use equipment that has high degrees of adjustability while I carry products that are devoid of much adjustments. The latter all fall within what I call happy medians. Like the majority of gear they can be lived with happily for ever after for as long as the demands are not as exacting on the part of the listener. The vast majority of audiophiles fall into this category and indeed the inndustry survives by servicing these customers by artfully and carefully crafting respective house sounds intentionally as is the case for some or unintentionally in the case of those that follow a singular design vision. .

I think that since we are already invested in our equipment that it would be very wasteful not to try to get the best out of them before casting covetous glances. One of the upsides of being in the high-end space is that it is very easy even for an ordinary customer to get in touch with the designers and manufacturers for advice instead of getting a service ticket or a 1-800 number if at all.

Just to prove my point, we can have the same gear in the same room and I will wager that given two listeners with different tastes, the same system can be set up to be enjoyable to both separately before spending another cent.
 

Lee

Active Member
Feb 4, 2011
1,407
3
38
Alpharetta, Georgia
#15
I’ll give you another one Marc: CMS versus HRS racks.
Yep. You would probably have to have two side by side identical sets of components. That would be interesting though.
 
May 30, 2010
14,101
72
48
Portugal
#17
I hope I never hear Vox Olympian or Wilson Whamm Chrono. Would make me sad listening to my great speakers...
Even the XLF should make you sad :). I really miss them, selling them was a stupid move.
 
May 30, 2010
14,101
72
48
Portugal
#18
(...) Today's 'best' turntable is not going to be the best five years from now or ten years from now,, etc. I think this applies to all gear as a generality. (...)
We have exceptions - the best turntable of sixty years ago is still the best and will be best ten years from now ... :cool:

I am sure that in ten years a significant number of owners will be telling their SME30 turntables are the best.
 
Jul 18, 2014
613
32
28
#20
I love hearing the best and am unconcerned by what’s the new best. I just thank every peak experience, lucky to have had a few and while I may return to a more modest system usually I find I get something from it.

I go to a mates house and hear something well beyond my budget but it’s pretty joyous to share music, be altered by a new awareness about what’s possible and sometimes get a new area of potential improvement as a takeaway.

I heard a few times a evolution acoustics MM3 based system with Ch precision, Soulution and so got the need to address the scale of the presentation and bass reach/control as a foundation for authority... and headroom, oh the freedom of a system when it scales up and doesn’t sound like it could ever be exhausted.

Or my mates Animas and OMAs. How natural, how effortless and that flow of consciouness. Such a very different best from the previously mentioned version of best.

So I get to share and celebrate and also never forget how it can be and then I’ll later do something within my own setup that buys just a bit more of some of these qualities and I’m ecstatic and aware that only by hearing the systems that are in many ways beyond my reach that I get a target to develop my own systems.

No harm in appreciation without ownership. Scaling the mountain of having it all, both sonic perfections and complete musicality its nice to grab peak at the complete view. So what if the sounds aren’t perfect though. It’s only when setups aren’t musically engaging that I feel nothing at all though.
 

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