w/o issue ? What is the surface made out of ? Are they the ultimate fidelity for vinyl playback, even though they are not vinyl ? These would be laquers cut down to 12" to fit a turtable. Thanks in advance.
Master Laquers - Can they be played on a turntable..
- Thread starter rockitman
- Start date
Mike Grellman in our BAAS group played one for the group a couple of years ago, but stated that they are much more fragile than vinyl records and will wear out much faster. It sounded great.
I think they are good candidates for a laser turntable, sort of a special analog treat like great reel to reel tapes. Don't really know how possible it would be to collect them, it sounds like it would be very expensive and exclusive.
I think they are good candidates for a laser turntable, sort of a special analog treat like great reel to reel tapes. Don't really know how possible it would be to collect them, it sounds like it would be very expensive and exclusive.
Last edited:
Yes
Nitrocellulose. The best used to be Piral (?sp) but they haven't been availble for better than a decade.
Yes and no. For about three-four plays. The material is relatively soft and rapidly becomes noisy and you'll lose the upper octaves. There's a bit of groove snapback also that occurs, hence the need to have the mastering and pressing facility on site and having the lacquer plated asap after mastering.
And yes, they would have to be reduced down from 14 to 12 inches.
In general, more information and harmonic content along with ambience retrieval than the resultant LP. My experience came from listening to rejected lacquers eg. because of groove narrowing, etc; otherwise they were perfect. Still have the Chesky Scheherazade lacquer hanging around somewhere on the shelves.
Myles,
so a classic records Master Laquer for example will wear out quickly after only a few plays ? How do you clean them ? I am assuming alcohol free solutions ?
so a classic records Master Laquer for example will wear out quickly after only a few plays ? How do you clean them ? I am assuming alcohol free solutions ?
Bummer...there are a couple set's on Ebay...Mingus and Mobley sealed. I bet they go for a pretty penny. I would of bid had I not known laquers don't last (Thanks for that info). I suppose you could make a real sweet RTR dub from the first playback.
I was there as well. Mike said all they get is perhaps 20 playings but man the audio was incredible listening
So I just won Hank Mobley....for a reasonable amount. Not sure I can land Mingus. I intend to playback and dub to RTR.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/15085610777...m1438.l2649&autorefresh=true&autorefresh=true
won Mingus Ah Um too. I wonder if last preservative would make them last longer. In any event, I need to calibrate my A810 and dub a copy of this 1st spin through...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160843198328?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/15085610777...m1438.l2649&autorefresh=true&autorefresh=true
won Mingus Ah Um too. I wonder if last preservative would make them last longer. In any event, I need to calibrate my A810 and dub a copy of this 1st spin through...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160843198328?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Last won't help, the material is too soft. IME (very limited) the master was played less than 6 times before being ruled unusable for plating and pressing. Usually not played at all before plating.
Myles -- nitrocellulose? I ws thinking it was something else; don't doubt you are right, just double-checking.
Seeing a cutter in action is quite a sight.
Myles -- nitrocellulose? I ws thinking it was something else; don't doubt you are right, just double-checking.
Seeing a cutter in action is quite a sight.
my intent the first listen is to let it record 15 ips on my Otari MTR-10 (Koetsu Coralstaone, ect..). Then shelve it until I get my Studer up to spec then dub another copy. Fun stuff and unique. Like a beautiful orchid that will soon wilt...
Christian, you might want to consider this: I have heard that another drawback from playing a master laquer is the potential for damage to your stylus. Remember that the lacquer is much softer and as a consequence can apparently 'form' onto your stylus! I have no experience with this, BUT I wouldn't subject a Koetsu to the risk, better to try a less expensive cartridge first and see if you notice this issue. Perhaps others here with more experience playing a master laquer can comment on this issue.
Hi Davey,
I think if there was some bad stylus wear going on, you would hear it. I would imagine towards it's end of life > 15-20 spins as it gets noisier wear could be a concern.
I think if there was some bad stylus wear going on, you would hear it. I would imagine towards it's end of life > 15-20 spins as it gets noisier wear could be a concern.
It is not stylus wear that is at issue, it is that the heating created by rapid stylus movement during playback can theoretically cause localized melting of the softer lacquer and subsequent deposition on the stylus. I do not know if that happens, or to what extent, in practice. OTOH, playing a master that you know has very limited life with less than your best cartridge is also a risk... Maybe just wait until the CD comes out? 
Also note the wear does not just add noise; it reduces HF content and channel separation as well.
Also note the wear does not just add noise; it reduces HF content and channel separation as well.
You may have difficulty doing the cutting circularly without chipping chunks of lacquer off as the aluminum base contorts. They may tear into the outer groove if not very careful.
The lacquers (AKA acetates) can be cleaned very effectively with Disc Doctor on a standard RCM as long as the brushes are very soft (DD's are). I've done it many times. Other non-alcohol solutions may be usable but I haven't tried them. I'd imagine with smooth edged 12" lacquer disc's the Audiodesk would do well, but I haven't tried it yet.
How much playing time they can handle depends enormously on VTF, stylus shape and general alignment of the cartridge and arm. One thing that can ruin a lacquer in one pass is playing on a line-contact stylus with SRA/VTA seriously mis-aligned (low, mostly). If it's really close, though, should be no problem.
I'm not aware of any laser turntable that can play lacquers. I had the ELP laser table for a few months, but it can only play black vinyl. Nothing else except black 78's. It's a reflectivity issue of the lasers employed. If there's something newer than the ELP (1990's technology) it might be possible.
Thanks bblue for that info. They are sealed laquers already cut to 12 inches by Classic Records. I can't imagine having to cut a 14" laquer down to 12" diameter on my own. How many plays are realistic (keeping in mind VTA, VTF is perfect) ?
If the lacquers are 100% clean, you might get 8-10 plays out of them before noise or HF detail loss became apparent. If you can't wash them, pressurized air would help. You just have to be pretty watchful when you play them, as it won't take much wrong to prematurely wear them. Run a tape as you play the first couple of times as those will likely be the best playbacks.
Have these ever been played before?
Good luck!
--Bill
No Bill, they are brand new sealed and cut to size laquers. I plan to be dubbing via rtr for the very first playback. 2 Mobley albums in 33, Mingus Ah Um in 45 and Dizzy Reece in 33....all from Classic records.
It is not stylus wear that is at issue, it is that the heating created by rapid stylus movement during playback can theoretically cause localized melting of the softer lacquer and subsequent deposition on the stylus. I do not know if that happens, or to what extent, in practice. OTOH, playing a master that you know has very limited life with less than your best cartridge is also a risk... Maybe just wait until the CD comes out?
Also note the wear does not just add noise; it reduces HF content and channel separation as well.
Thank you Don for clarifying what I have heard in the past. Personally, this isn't something that I would be doing with a high priced cartridge, I guess the OP MMV
Similar threads
 | Steve Williams Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator |  | Ron Resnick Site Co-Owner | Administrator |  | Julian (The Fixer) Website Build | Marketing Managersing |