LP-12 owners: What's your favorite cartridge?

[Tonepub]

Getting back to my LP-12 and pondering cartridges. Mine is a simple, early 80's LP-12, sans Lingo with Ittok 1.2 arm.

Do we have any LP-12 fans here? If so, what has worked well for you?

Thanks!

 

[DaveyF]

Getting back to my LP-12 and pondering cartridges. Mine is a simple, early 80's LP-12, sans Lingo with Ittok 1.2 arm.

Do we have any LP-12 fans here? If so, what has worked well for you?

Thanks!

I guess you could say that I am a quasi fan. What has worked well for me is getting away from the Ittok, which is no easy task. IMHO, the WTA that I am using is a far better arm, BUT getting long in the tooth these days. Which brings me to the biggest failing of this table, again IMO, and that is: the severe restrictions that one has in choosing an arm...SME V, nope too heavy, Most of the newer
super arms...nope incompatible, Graham Phantom Supreme...nope too heavy.. So the WTA it is. OTOH, I do like my Benz Ruby 2/ WTA combo with the LP12/Valhalla enough to stick with it..
that is for the time being. Beginning to hanker after a TW or Jon Palmer..particularly after I look at the cost to upgrade to a Radikal.

 

[Tonepub]

Davey, that's kind of where I'm at... I have a 2nd LP12 here (14 turntables now, yikes!) that I'm considering doing some 2nd party upgrades to, and there are some interesting paths as well. I've been considering the GreenStreet Audio sub chassis, which looks pretty well thought through, and he will drill them for other arms. I've got a spare RB700 sitting here collecting dust that looks intriguing. Who knows? But having a stock one for a comparison should make it fairly easy to do some good side by side comparisons and see if we're achieving something that's in fact revealing more music rather than just different.

And then again, it could be a wild goose chase. Wouldn't be the first time. Anyone want some Quad 57's? Ha!

 

[DaveyF]

That's another thing that 'bother's me with the Linn...so many "upgrade" paths. Everyone and their uncle's uncle has an upgrade kit. Tiger Paw, Funk firm, Green Street, Naim, Hurcules and who knows what. They all work miracles.
Then from Linn we have the Cirkus bearing, the Lingo 1,2 and 3..Radikal and on and on. IF you put ALL of the upgrades on the table, at the price you might as well opt for a TW or Palmer and have the option of your choice of arm and more than likely a better TT. Anybody on the other side of the pond at Linn realize this

 

[Tonepub]

Couldn't agree with you more, but I'm seeing the LP-12's more as a pair of vintage British sports cars that I enjoy tinkering with rather than agonizing over what the "best" setup is. I've got an AVID Acutus, the Kronos and an AMG V-12 as my go to workhorse tables (along with a pair of AVID Volvere's and a VPI Classic) so the other stuff is just for fun.

Had a TW Acustic Raven Two and shouldn't have gotten rid of it. (like cars again!) THey make great turntables. The Palmer looks really cool, so I am hoping someday we can get one in for review. It's always sounded great when I've heard it at shows.

 

[XV-1]

performance xv-1 for best performance.

My sentimental fav that is on the table now is Linn Troika with ESC stylus retip. Beautiful.

 

[Odyno]

Shoot for the Linn Cartridge. They all match very well with Linn tonearm.
Dyna are also good match.

 

[flez007]

I had a Linn cartirdge back then, just can´t remeber the model

 

[Odyno]

Beside the Troika, the Asaka were fun cartridge correct me if I am wrong but I believe trey were both made by Supex for Linn.

 

[microstrip]

I owned several LP12 incarnations in the past - I sold the last one about two years ago, trying to kill the collector side of me. I have to say I never enjoyed the Linn cartidges in my system, even with Linn tonearms. As far as I remember, the Kiseki Blue, Koestu rosewwood and both the high output and low output Sumiko Talsiman's sounded great on it. But the Asak in an all Naim system with a Sondek sounded great!

BTW, my first Linn was fitted with a Grace 707 tonearm.

 

[Odyno]

I agree about the Asak but the ASAKA was a different bird all together.
Personaly I have been using my LP12/Itock with a Koetsu black for most time....

 

[class a]

I use a Dynavector 10x5 on my Ittok. Also the Benz Micro Ace and the Dynavector 20x2 are excellent choices.

 

[jazdoc]

I loved the Carnegie One cartridge and Kesiki cartridges with my LP-12/Ittok.

 

[DaveyF]

Bringing this thread back to life. I happened to have the opportunity to do an 'AB' today against the Palmer 2.5. This is the TT that I had thought earlier would be a nice upgrade to my Linn. Today, a fellow a'phile obliged me, by bringing his Palmer equipped with the Origami PU7 arm over to listen to against my just modded LP12 with Radikal D and Kore/Cirkus.
We played a number of LP's...from Sheffield Labs well known Track LP, to the M&K LP For Duke and the under-rated (IMO) Sheffield Lab Michael Newman classical guitar LP and lastly to the Music Matters re-issue of Hank Mobley's Soul station..on 45rpm.
Well, the results were very interesting...the Palmer was, in both of our opinions, a little outclassed! While the Palmer was slightly more capable in producing the bottom end ( only really noticeable on the Track LP) it was far less able to float images, seemed to lose information on the more dense sections of the For Duke LP and was far less resolving on all the LP's. The Linn was much more capable and seemed more accurate ...particularly evident on the Michael Newman LP. My friend commented that the Linn was able to resolve the string sound of Michael's guitar with what he called a better "nylon sound".
On the 45rpm Hank Mobley, it was quite evident that the Palmer was not able to portray Hank's saxophone air as well as the LP12. Could this have been attributed to the cartridge that was on the Palmer? It is possible as the Origami was fitted with a Lyra Delos....while my WTA is fitted with a Benz Ruby 2...BUT this does seem unlikely.
Moral of this one, is that while I had pined for the Palmer before, after this experience, it is no longer on my radar. I guess the good old Linn still has the moves!

 

[No Regrets]

Bringing this thread back to life. I happened to have the opportunity to do an 'AB' today against the Palmer 2.5. This is the TT that I had thought earlier would be a nice upgrade to my Linn. Today, a fellow a'phile obliged me, by bringing his Palmer equipped with the Origami PU7 arm over to listen to against my just modded LP12 with Radikal D and Kore/Cirkus.
We played a number of LP's...from Sheffield Labs well known Track LP, to the M&K LP For Duke and the under-rated (IMO) Sheffield Lab Michael Newman classical guitar LP and lastly to the Music Matters re-issue of Hank Mobley's Soul station..on 45rpm.
Well, the results were very interesting...the Palmer was, in both of our opinions, a little outclassed! While the Palmer was slightly more capable in producing the bottom end ( only really noticeable on the Track LP) it was far less able to float images, seemed to lose information on the more dense sections of the For Duke LP and was far less resolving on all the LP's. The Linn was much more capable and seemed more accurate ...particularly evident on the Michael Newman LP. My friend commented that the Linn was able to resolve the string sound of Michael's guitar with what he called a better "nylon sound".
On the 45rpm Hank Mobley, it was quite evident that the Palmer was not able to portray Hank's saxophone air as well as the LP12. Could this have been attributed to the cartridge that was on the Palmer? It is possible as the Origami was fitted with a Lyra Delos....while my WTA is fitted with a Benz Ruby 2...BUT this does seem unlikely.
Moral of this one, is that while I had pined for the Palmer before, after this experience, it is no longer on my radar. I guess the good old Linn still has the moves!

Hey Davey,

Thanks for the post. It's always easy to think that the grass might be greener on the other side of the fence, but often we find out, just as you did, that it might not be the case.

I've enjoyed my LP12/ARO/Benz Ruby Zebrawood since the early nineties and have loved every minute of it. Have I ever flirted with the idea of getting a new analog rig? Yep, I have…but every time I come home and spin some vinyl on it…I still get the goosebumps, my eyes will still swell up with tears from the emotional connection that is made from the music coming from that rig….so I've never pulled the trigger on anything else. Like the saying goes…if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Well, my LP12 is a rare bird in that back in the Nineties I had it modded with what was then called the Pink Link from the Pink Triangle Corp (now known as the Funk Firm.) What the modifications consisted of is changing the top plate to a different material, changing the motor from AC to DC, moving the location of the new motor to the lower left hand corner of the top plate to be more in line with the stylus rather than being broad side to it, and having a large sophisticated motor controller with a 12volt SLA battery power supply. My God, the music emerges from the blackest of back drops, the micro and macro dynamics are scarily real, the finesse of the minute details are uncanny and the timing and pace of the music much improved. It's interesting that after all these years, Linn has finally caught on to the improvements that can be made with these types of changes that have been made via the Pink Triangle Corp decades ago.

Well getting round about back to your post (I should have became a minister…I've got the gift of gab.lol) Remember I said….if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Well it wasn't often during all of these years that I was even tempted to consider another deck….but now, my Linn is finally broke. Either my motor, or more likely my motor controller/power supply is no longer keeping the platter spinning at a constant 33.3. When I get to complex music passages the platter wants to slooow doownnn. Well, I can't really complain for it has given me immense enjoyment for roughly 20 years….pretty good value I'd say. So now, I've been getting tempted. Surely, after all these years there must have been improvements made over and above the LP12…or have there? There is the Axpona Show coming up in Chicago this April and I will be checking out the AMG V12, the Spiral Groove, the Innovation Wood, and the Artisan Fidelity Achates Idler Drive. After listening to those, I will decide to either get one of them or get the new and improved Funk Firm DC motor/controller/power supply made specifically for the LP12 and start enjoying my vinyl collection again.

In any case, I'm really glad that you are so very happy with your LP12! A lot of people tend to dismiss this table because it is so old school, but until they actually listen to one properly set up, they are often very amazed and often gobsmacked at what they hear. You post has come at a good time for me!

Enjoy the music, my friend!
No Regrets

 

[DaveyF]

Hey Davey,

Thanks for the post. It's always easy to think that the grass might be greener on the other side of the fence, but often we find out, just as you did, that it might not be the case.

I've enjoyed my LP12/ARO/Benz Ruby Zebrawood since the early nineties and have loved every minute of it. Have I ever flirted with the idea of getting a new analog rig? Yep, I have…but every time I come home and spin some vinyl on it…I still get the goosebumps, my eyes will still swell up with tears from the emotional connection that is made from the music coming from that rig….so I've never pulled the trigger on anything else. Like the saying goes…if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Well, my LP12 is a rare bird in that back in the Nineties I had it modded with what was then called the Pink Link from the Pink Triangle Corp (now known as the Funk Firm.) What the modifications consisted of is changing the top plate to a different material, changing the motor from AC to DC, moving the location of the new motor to the lower left hand corner of the top plate to be more in line with the stylus rather than being broad side to it, and having a large sophisticated motor controller with a 12volt SLA battery power supply. My God, the music emerges from the blackest of back drops, the micro and macro dynamics are scarily real, the finesse of the minute details are uncanny and the timing and pace of the music much improved. It's interesting that after all these years, Linn has finally caught on to the improvements that can be made with these types of changes that have been made via the Pink Triangle Corp decades ago.

Well getting round about back to your post (I should have became a minister…I've got the gift of gab.lol) Remember I said….if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Well it wasn't often during all of these years that I was even tempted to consider another deck….but now, my Linn is finally broke. Either my motor, or more likely my motor controller/power supply is no longer keeping the platter spinning at a constant 33.3. When I get to complex music passages the platter wants to slooow doownnn. Well, I can't really complain for it has given me immense enjoyment for roughly 20 years….pretty good value I'd say. So now, I've been getting tempted. Surely, after all these years there must have been improvements made over and above the LP12…or have there? There is the Axpona Show coming up in Chicago this April and I will be checking out the AMG V12, the Spiral Groove, the Innovation Wood, and the Artisan Fidelity Achates Idler Drive. After listening to those, I will decide to either get one of them or get the new and improved Funk Firm DC motor/controller/power supply made specifically for the LP12 and start enjoying my vinyl collection again.

In any case, I'm really glad that you are so very happy with your LP12! A lot of people tend to dismiss this table because it is so old school, but until they actually listen to one properly set up, they are often very amazed and often gobsmacked at what they hear. You post has come at a good time for me!

Enjoy the music, my friend!
No Regrets

No regrets, I was a little skeptical when I changed out my power supply from the Valhalla to the Radikal D and did the other mods. I thought my TT was pretty good before and I had been using the Valhalla for many years. However, I can tell you, that the Radikal is a MAJOR improvement that is almost hard to believe! If you are considering upgrading your Linn, I would HIGHLY recommend the Radikal D. Even though you had the Funk Firm upgrade, I'm pretty certain that it would be a nice upgrade over even that.
I'm not really a "Linnie"... as I also still suspect that there are TT's out there that can out do the LP12 ( even in today's spec). BUT I'm now understanding that there probably aren't too many that actually can accomplish that feat. Certainly, a listen in your own system will be instructive. Like I said before, i had "assumed" that the Palmer 2.5 ( which BTW isn't any slouch) would be easily one of them. Turned out to my surprise that it wasn't to be.

 

[No Regrets]

No regrets, I was a little skeptical when I changed out my power supply from the Valhalla to the Radikal D and did the other mods. I thought my TT was pretty good before and I had been using the Valhalla for many years. However, I can tell you, that the Radikal is a MAJOR improvement that is almost hard to believe! If you are considering upgrading your Linn, I would HIGHLY recommend the Radikal D. Even though you had the Funk Firm upgrade, I'm pretty certain that it would be a nice upgrade over even that.
I'm not really a "Linnie"... as I also still suspect that there are TT's out there that can out do the LP12 ( even in today's spec). BUT I'm now understanding that there probably aren't too many that actually can accomplish that feat. Certainly, a listen in your own system will be instructive. Like I said before, i had "assumed" that the Palmer 2.5 ( which BTW isn't any slouch) would be easily one of them. Turned out to my surprise that it wasn't to be.

Hi Davey,

So if I understand the Radikal correctly, it also switches out the original AC motor for a DC motor, and comes with a new motor controller and power supply. Is the new DC motor still mounted where the AC motor was in the back left corner, or is it now moved to the lower left corner? Also, is the DC motor mounted on the top plate or to the subassembly? Any idea on how much the Radikal costs now-a-days….just a guesstimate would be fine?

I don't consider myself a "Linnie" per say either. I'd like to think that I can keep an open mind….but I will say that I sure have loved every minute of having my LP12.

Thanks Davey!

 

[DaveyF]

Hi Davey,

So if I understand the Radikal correctly, it also switches out the original AC motor for a DC motor, and comes with a new motor controller and power supply. Is the new DC motor still mounted where the AC motor was in the back left corner, or is it now moved to the lower left corner? Also, is the DC motor mounted on the top plate or to the subassembly? Any idea on how much the Radikal costs now-a-days….just a guesstimate would be fine?

I don't consider myself a "Linnie" per say either. I'd like to think that I can keep an open mind….but I will say that I sure have loved every minute of having my LP12.

Thanks Davey!

Hi No Regrets. The Radikal kit swaps out the AC motor for a much higher quality DC motor. It also includes a new motor controller and power supply, along with an optical sensor that is mounted where the old belt guide used to be mounted ( on the top plate). The DC motor is mounted in the same location as the old motor ( attached to the top plate). The Radikal kit is currently the most expensive upgrade to the Linn. Not sure as to the dealer price in your area...so wouldn't want to guesstimate. Nonetheless, as I stated above, I do believe it is a tremendous upgrade for the Linn LP12. I also would recommend the new Kore sub chassis ( or if funds allow---the Keel) and if you don't already have one...the Cirkus bearing.

 

[No Regrets]

Hi No Regrets. The Radikal kit swaps out the AC motor for a much higher quality DC motor. It also includes a new motor controller and power supply, along with an optical sensor that is mounted where the old belt guide used to be mounted ( on the top plate). The DC motor is mounted in the same location as the old motor ( attached to the top plate). The Radikal kit is currently the most expensive upgrade to the Linn. Not sure as to the dealer price in your area...so wouldn't want to guesstimate. Nonetheless, as I stated above, I do believe it is a tremendous upgrade for the Linn LP12. I also would recommend the new Kore sub chassis ( or if funds allow---the Keel) and if you don't already have one...the Cirkus bearing.

Hi Davey,

I'm sure the Radikal kit would be an excellent upgrade to the LP12. I will check into what the current pricing is in my area. The other option would be for me to get the latest and greatest DC Motor/Controller/PowerSupply from the Funk Firm which might be even less expensive than the Radikal. I won't be doing anything though until after the Axpona Show in Chicago. I'm really looking forward to checking out a handful of turntables there, just to see if there has been much, if any, improvements have been made over the years.

I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and experiences with me.

No Regrets

 

[DaveyF]

Hi, No regrets. Please do post your thoughts here once you have had a chance to listen to the other TT's. The AMG V12 would be high on my list, I have actually heard it on several occasions ( BUT not in my system) and it is a great TT. The tonearm that comes with the AMG is also a good one, so the complete package isn't too crazily priced. The Spiral Groove is also a major contender, having heard this one too, I think it would be a toss up between it and the AMG V12. OTOH, I am now a little wary as to how these TT's would stack up against my Linn; particularly after my experience with the Palmer. I do believe that one needs to hear any TT in question in one's own system.... a VERY difficult thing to accomplish, as well all know

For now, I am VERY content with my "modded" Linn Lp12.