"Live" vs Recorded - Thursday June 14th

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Said with a grin, of course ... but the analogy is that when standing near the speakers that it is equivalent to hearing the drums at a volume as if they were 8 metres away. I'm well aware that the tone will not be as precisely correct as on good quality speakers, but the subjective impression is that the dynamic qualities are correct. Maybe an analogy is of listening to a good beginner's kit, as the real thing, vs. listening to the precise quality of the particular recorded kit ...

Frank

Frank, a pair of speakers - even the G1 with the cuteness factor thrown in - may be able to convince you that you are hearing drums at a volume as if they were 8m away. But this is a trained expectation because you want to believe that you are hearing a facsimile of "live". You believe that subjectively, the dynamic qualities (and even the tonal and harmonic qualities) are correct. This is a belief.

However, when I say that it cannot convince me that it is in fact truly "live", there is no way that I can have a drum kit 4m away (1m would hurt my ears too much), listen to it live, and then play back the recording and stand right next to the speaker, and not to be able to tell the difference. This is an objective statement.
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Things are coming together very nicely for the event. We have an award-winning performer who plays both tenor saxaphone and clarinet (member jazdoc's son - Thanks, Mark!).


Benjamin Zobel is a junior at Newport High School in Bellevue and plays tenor saxophone and clarinet in the school jazz band. Recent honors include:
All-State Wind Ensemble 2012
All-State Solo & Ensemble 2012
Gold Medallion at 2012 Seattle Young Artist Festival

Todd Garfinkle will record in the large acoustic space of the church sanctuary (all members will move upstairs to listen to the performance)



and then we will bring the recording downstairs to the basement where we will play the recording back through the club's modest sound system.

We will have an award winning Director/writer/cameraman/editor Cal Lewin (http://opticusmedia.com/) record the event, and post the video on Youtube.

It should make for a very interesting evening.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Things are coming together very nicely for the event. We have an award-winning performer who plays both tenor saxaphone and clarinet (member jazdoc's son - Thanks, Mark!).


Benjamin Zobel is a junior at Newport High School in Bellevue and plays tenor saxophone and clarinet in the school jazz band. Recent honors include:
All-State Wind Ensemble 2012
All-State Solo & Ensemble 2012
Gold Medallion at 2012 Seattle Young Artist Festival

Todd Garfinkle will record in the large acoustic space of the church sanctuary (all members will move upstairs to listen to the performance)



and then we will bring the recording downstairs to the basement where we will play the recording back through the club's modest sound system.

We will have an award winning Director/writer/cameraman/editor Cal Lewin (http://opticusmedia.com/) record the event, and post the video on Youtube.

It should make for a very interesting evening.

Really cool Gary. They're lucky to have you out there :)
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Really cool Gary. They're lucky to have you out there :)

Thanks, Myles. I think that no matter what the outcome, all who turn up will learn something. The process of learning is sometimes much more enlightening than the lesson learned. I'm very thankful that Todd Garfinkle is brave enough to attempt to do this, and also very grateful to jazdoc for persuading his son to be the subject.
 

audioarcher

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2012
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Seattle area
This should be very interesting. I am looking forward to hearing this demonstration.

Thank you and all the other people involved in putting this demo together.

I have only started attending this meeting for the last 6 months. It is well organized and fun. I hope to get to know everyone better in the future.

Sean
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Sean, I'm glad that you are enjoying the PNWAS meetings.

I'm looking forward to this myself! The PNWAS members have figured by now that I help with events that I also find interesting and challenging.

Thanks must go to Todd Garfinkle for his bravery, and the two musicians Benjamin Zobel and Shaina Rae who are game enough to contribute their talents.

I wasn't there, but evidently the Burmester/Oracle folks did something similar at THE Show Newport Beach:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/you-cant-beat-real-thing-0

They had a singer, Anne Bisson duetting with herself. The club's system is much more modest, and we hope to make the recordings from the session available to the members who can make it for the meeting so that they can also hear it "live" in their own system at home.
 

audioarcher

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2012
1,344
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395
Seattle area
Sean, I'm glad that you are enjoying the PNWAS meetings.

I'm looking forward to this myself! The PNWAS members have figured by now that I help with events that I also find interesting and challenging.

Thanks must go to Todd Garfinkle for his bravery, and the two musicians Benjamin Zobel and Shaina Rae who are game enough to contribute their talents.

I wasn't there, but evidently the Burmester/Oracle folks did something similar at THE Show Newport Beach:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/you-cant-beat-real-thing-0

They had a singer, Anne Bisson duetting with herself. The club's system is much more modest, and we hope to make the recordings from the session available to the members who can make it for the meeting so that they can also hear it "live" in their own system at home.

That would be really cool to get a recording of it to playback in my own system.:cool:

If you brought your new 1400 wpc monos the system might have a fighting chance.:p I was impressed with the dynamics of the system with your monos playing the M&K realtime LP's a few months ago. Of course the dynamics of the those recordings are top notch but those amps really showed that off.

I am not in the financial position to acquire them at the moment but would love to hear them in my system one day. I'm running am running a 500 wpc Innersound amp now and it sounds great but I am curious if more power would control my Innersound Kayas even better. I also like the seperate power supply on your monos. A very rare thing for power amps. The only others I am aware of are the new Pass XS series amps that cost a fortune.

Sean
 
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garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Sean,

When we played that Flamenco Fever track, I was worried that the 1400W monos would send the cones of the speakers flying straight across the room!! It wasn't as evident from the perspective of the audience, but I was standing to the side of the speakers, and could see that the surrounds being stretched. The motors on the drivers are underhung so there's no chance of the coil bending and bottoming, but I was worried for the cones...... so, as much as I am tempted to, I don't think I'll bring the monos this time. :p

I think to be fair to the members, we should use the club system (with a nice, safe 60 wpc), but with the chance of getting a copy of the recording to listen to in your own system so that you can hear it in all its glory.

I'm not sure that my amps will be better at controlling the Kayas better than Innersound's own amps, but if you want to lug them back and forth, I'll be happy to let you try out the demo amps if they are available. They are going out of town travelling soon, but should be back in a couple of months.
 

audioarcher

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2012
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395
Seattle area
Sean,

When we played that Flamenco Fever track, I was worried that the 1400W monos would send the cones of the speakers flying straight across the room!! It wasn't as evident from the perspective of the audience, but I was standing to the side of the speakers, and could see that the surrounds being stretched. The motors on the drivers are underhung so there's no chance of the coil bending and bottoming, but I was worried for the cones...... so, as much as I am tempted to, I don't think I'll bring the monos this time. :p

I think to be fair to the members, we should use the club system (with a nice, safe 60 wpc), but with the chance of getting a copy of the recording to listen to in your own system so that you can hear it in all its glory.

I'm not sure that my amps will be better at controlling the Kayas better than Innersound's own amps, but if you want to lug them back and forth, I'll be happy to let you try out the demo amps if they are available. They are going out of town travelling soon, but should be back in a couple of months.

Hi Gary,

I remember you commenting about the excursion of the drivers after that track.:eek: I don't blame you for being cautious. That is alot of power and the volume was quite loud.:) It is a testament to the quality of the design of your speakers. The room they are in is very large and I was suprised the system could play that loud without hearing any distortion.

Thank you for the offer to demo your amps. I don't want to impose on you but if you are sure its not a bother it would be an interesting experiment. I don't have any issues with my current amps and I should probably leave well enough alone.:rolleyes:

This hobby is funny. I'm allways curious about what could get me closer to the real thing and there are so many different things that can make a difference. Some say it's the journey not the destination. They are probably right. If it was easy to get top notch sound it would not be much of a hobby.

Cheers,

Sean
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Seattle, WA
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Special Limited Time offer - Jun 15 to 30 ONLY

We had a great meeting last night with Todd Garfinkle where we could experience sitting into Todd's recording session, and the subsequent play back of what he recorded. A record 47 attendees turned up!!

After he played a few tracks for members during his talk, there was a concerted rush to the back of the room to buy his CDs and high-rez DVD-ROM. However, we were pressed for time, and we had to herd everybody upstairs to start the recording session. I was also berating Todd for not bringing copies of some of my favorites like the Martin Zeller Bach Cello Suites, the Bulgarian Piano Blues, and the Ito Ema Bach Goldberg Variations. He said that he already has 90 titles and he couldn't bring them all.

So, Todd has made a very special limited time offer to PNWAS members -

$30 for his high-rez DVD-ROMS and $15 for the CDs (the same price he offered last night).... and free shipping for over $100 purchased. (Free shipping for US lower 48-states only). This is only a limited time offer, so, go to his website to order NOW!

http://www.marecordings.com/main/default.php

Note in the comments section that you are a PNWAS member during check-out.


Cheers
Gary



ps. the albums he demo'ed during the meeting were:

M025A Salterio/Begona Olavide:
http://www.marecordings.com/main/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=54


M062A La Segunda/Sera una Noche (one of my personal favorites):
http://www.marecordings.com/main/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=145


and M084A Nama/Punte Celeste:
http://www.marecordings.com/main/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=152
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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545
Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
Here are a few pictures to start.

The unique microphones Todd used - with built-in mic preamp. Each microphone uses four 9V batteries as a power source.

Microphones.jpg

Setting up. The microphones were on a Gitzo carbon-fiber camera tripod. The Korg recorder was on a maple block on a seat cushion on a bible stand.

Setting up.jpg

The cool saxophonist Benjamin Zobel

Benjamin 1.jpg

Singer/Songwriter/Guitarist Shaina Rae

Shaina 1.jpg
 

carolkoh

[Industry Expert] Member Sponsor
Sep 17, 2010
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I've always thought that the hardest thing to do in recording is to capture the emotion in the singer's voice... the recording of Shaina was pretty amazing. Here's a link to her info: http://www.reverbnation.com/shainarae - and you can download one of the songs she sang for us there, Dan's Song - albeit in MP3 & not done by Todd. I think we are still processing the recordings done on Thursday.
 

jazdoc

Member Sponsor
Aug 7, 2010
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I bought the Nama/Punte Celeste...highly recommended. I love Argentinian music.
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
5,484
73
545
Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
Members streaming back downstairs. Waiting in anticipation to hear the recording.

Back downstairs.jpg

One of the members said that this was the second challenge the club's system has passed - first hugely dynamic music during the session where we played the Direct Disk Flamenco Fever without breaking down and distorting, this time when we heard "live" and then the recorded version.
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
5,484
73
545
Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
I've always thought that the hardest thing to do in recording is to capture the emotion in the singer's voice... the recording of Shaina was pretty amazing. Here's a link to her info: http://www.reverbnation.com/shainarae - and you can download one of the songs she sang for us there, Dan's Song - albeit in MP3 & not done by Todd. I think we are still processing the recordings done on Thursday.

The recording was done in 5.6 MHz DSD, so I'll have to downsample for CD. We did a quick one using Audiogate to downsample and burn a CD at the same time, and then duplicated at high speed on a CoolCopy for distribution on Thursday night. We did use good gold archival MAM-A CDR's though.

Once I get it done properly, I'll have CDs for the two musicians, and both Redbook 16/44.1 as well as 24/176.4 available for download.
 

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