"Live" vs Recorded - Thursday June 14th

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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Seattle, WA
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Mr Todd Garfinkle is the Owner and Chief Recording Engineer of MA Recordings. The MA label issues provocatively creative music the vast majority of which are produced with only two (often handmade and customized) microphones fed through handmade and customized recording equipment. All MA Recordings are produced in strictly acoustic settings, often large, acoustically significant environments such as churches, classical concert halls, and galleries.

Todd will share some of his stories and techniques and introduce members of the PNWAS to his recordings. He will be giving away a high-rez sampler of his recordings to every member at the meeting. Certainly a good reason to attend.

On top of this - for something even more interesting - if the club is able to find a brave and willing musician, we will also explore the difference between listening to the musician "live", and played back through the club's system. The musician will be asked to play a piece in the church basement, and Todd will record this. We will then play the recording back through the club's system.

I'm sure that this will result in a very spirited discussion ;)

Visitors and Guests always welcome.

Pacific Northwest Audio Society
Basement - Mercer Island Congregational Church
4545 Island Crest Way
Mercer Island, WA 98040
 

fas42

Addicted To Best
Jan 8, 2011
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NSW Australia
On top of this - for something even more interesting - if the club is able to find a brave and willing musician, we will also explore the difference between listening to the musician "live", and played back through the club's system. The musician will be asked to play a piece in the church basement, and Todd will record this. We will then play the recording back through the club's system.
To throw a cat amongst the pigeons, I'd suggest a saxophone player ... :b:b

Frank
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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585
New York City
Mr Todd Garfinkle is the Owner and Chief Recording Engineer of MA Recordings. The MA label issues provocatively creative music the vast majority of which are produced with only two (often handmade and customized) microphones fed through handmade and customized recording equipment. All MA Recordings are produced in strictly acoustic settings, often large, acoustically significant environments such as churches, classical concert halls, and galleries.

Todd will share some of his stories and techniques and introduce members of the PNWAS to his recordings. He will be giving away a high-rez sampler of his recordings to every member at the meeting. Certainly a good reason to attend.

On top of this - for something even more interesting - if the club is able to find a brave and willing musician, we will also explore the difference between listening to the musician "live", and played back through the club's system. The musician will be asked to play a piece in the church basement, and Todd will record this. We will then play the recording back through the club's system.

I'm sure that this will result in a very spirited discussion ;)

Visitors and Guests always welcome.

Pacific Northwest Audio Society
Basement - Mercer Island Congregational Church
4545 Island Crest Way
Mercer Island, WA 98040

The live vs. recorded sound experiments are always educational! They usually go to show how woeful most recordings are at reproducing even a reasonable facsmile of a solo instrument such as even a guitar with limited dynamics, much less, anything larger :)
 

jazdoc

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Aug 7, 2010
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Bellevue
To throw a cat amongst the pigeons, I'd suggest a saxophone player ... :b:b

Frank

Gary,

I can try and volunteer my son the saxophone player...
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
5,484
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545
Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
Gary,

I can try and volunteer my son the saxophone player...

That would be fabulous!! I was thinking of a guitar player - it's easier on the system. If you bring a trumpet player, I'll have to bring my 1400W monoblocks.

The principle is to use the club's system. This is a system that everyone in the club knows and is a "reference" - 60W tube amp, 88dB efficient speakers. So the dynamics of a sax or trumpet are going to be a real challenge.
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Jul 1, 2010
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Sax will be much better than an acoustic guitar, which is not much of a challenge. A drum kit -- full trap set -- would be a real eye-opener. It all depends on how good you want to feel about your audio reproduction at the end of the test. What kind of recording equipment does your friend use?

Tim
 

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
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The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
Hehe, a drum set would make folks cry. Oh, dear.
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
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Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
Probably 30+ years ago, I attended a demonstration in Ft. Worth where two identical rooms were built and in one room were live instruments (piano and standup bass if I remember correctly) and two mics. And the other room (quite some distance down a hall) was what would have been called at that time a high end audio system. While audio has come a very very long way since then, the differences were ginormous. While the "reproduced" sound was incredible and certainly sounded like music, it sounded nothing like live. That was a fun and eye opening experiment.
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
5,484
73
545
Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
Sax will be much better than an acoustic guitar, which is not much of a challenge. A drum kit -- full trap set -- would be a real eye-opener. It all depends on how good you want to feel about your audio reproduction at the end of the test. What kind of recording equipment does your friend use?

Tim

His specialty is recording in real acoustic spaces with just 2 microphones. Check out his recordings here: http://www.marecordings.com/

Since this is part of an audio society meeting, we are hoping to have an instrument (or vocalist + instrument) that is portable. A drum kit would have been fun.
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
5,484
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Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
Probably 30+ years ago, I attended a demonstration in Ft. Worth where two identical rooms were built and in one room were live instruments (piano and standup bass if I remember correctly) and two mics. And the other room (quite some distance down a hall) was what would have been called at that time a high end audio system. While audio has come a very very long way since then, the differences were ginormous. While the "reproduced" sound was incredible and certainly sounded like music, it sounded nothing like live. That was a fun and eye opening experiment.

I like that idea - instead of playing the recording back in the space the recording was done in (doubling the room effects), we should record and listen in different rooms. I'll have to chat with Todd about the logistics.
 

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
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The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
My apologies, Gary. It should be a fun event, regardless of the instrument(s) used or the outcome. You guys [and gals] have enough going on out in Washington State to make me want to move.

:)
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
5,484
73
545
Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
No apologies necessary. The club members know me well enough. It is an event meant to challenge, educate, and illuminate. The last "shoot out" I did was the Digital vs Analog dialectic , and I think that we all had a lot of fun. That was posted in my "Expert" forum, but in this case, I'm not the expert - it's Todd Garfinkle.
 

Ki Choi

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May 13, 2010
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Gary,

Live vs reproduction of any acoustical instruments and vocals would be a pointless contest, IMO.

A better fight would be for live mic feed of the performance vs reproduction of the same performance recorded and reproduced through the same amp+speakers setup, IMHO...
 

fas42

Addicted To Best
Jan 8, 2011
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The principle is to use the club's system. This is a system that everyone in the club knows and is a "reference" - 60W tube amp, 88dB efficient speakers. So the dynamics of a sax or trumpet are going to be a real challenge.
Theoretically, this should be able to peak at 106dB at 1 metre: enough "grunt" to handle reproduction of a sax at a few metres distance ...

Frank
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Jul 1, 2010
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I'm hoping to open eyes, not discourage and put audiophiles into dispair.

Audiophiles do not need to be driven into dispair, but some of them do need a serious dose of reality. If they viewed their systems' capabilities more realistically, dispair might stay at a greater distance. In an experiment like you're conducting, I think the perfect test wold be an acoustic jazz trio - piano, stand-up bass and drums. And take a break from the ensemble at some point to let the drummer put down the brushes, pick up the sticks and play something loud and dynamic enough that the piano and bass would have a hard time keeping up (it won't be hard).

The difference between that and anything any recording system could play back through any audiophile system would be eye-opening indeed.

Tim

PS: A drum kit is portable. The piano? Not so much.
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Jul 1, 2010
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There's a piano there. Two of them, if I remember correctly. If someone has the strings to pull / friends to bribe to get a jazz trio there... we'd love it!

It would make a great demo. Wish I was in Seattle.

Tim
 

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