Live music - what does it tell us ?

[morricab]

A friend wants to sell me his Deja Vu 300B. I wrote the company in VA and asked it they made it and could tell me more. He wants $6000 with Western Electric tubes. It takes 4 of them. I am not sure if the amp is PP or Parallel Single ended.

A single 300b might or might not be enough for your speakers.

 

[bonzo75]

A friend wants to sell me his Deja Vu 300B. I wrote the company in VA and asked it they made it and could tell me more. He wants $6000 with Western Electric tubes. It takes 4 of them. I am not sure if the amp is PP or Parallel Single ended.

what’s the wattage?

 

[tima]

At a live performance you are at the mercy of the house and your seat. At home you enjoy someone’s best efforts to mike and capture the performance, you control the room and your seat.

Stravinsky wrote "Our two ears are about six inches apart, whereas the stereo microphones which hear a live orchestra for us are sometimes as much apart as sixty feet. We do not hear live performances stereophonically, therefore, and stereo -- instead of giving us 'the best seat in the house' -- is, in fact, a kind of non-existent, omnipresent seat. (Nor is it a seat in the orchestra for an orchestra doesn't sound stereophonic to itself.) I say this not to criticize stereo, however, but to question the meaning of 'high fidelity'. Fidelity to what? But though stereo may be unreal in my sense, it can be in another sense ideal, and as such it has important consequences. For one thing, it is a challenge to existing concert halls; how can we continue to prefer an inferior reality (the concert hall) to ideal sterophony?"

--- Memories and Commentaries, Robert Craft and Igor Stravinsky, isbn 0571211631
?
Stereo can be unreal but in another sense ideal. Audio room effects as psycho-acoustic idealizations of the live experience.

What do you want your stereo system to sound like? I use live music as my reference. Here may be the first time a forum member has given us some sort of account of preference in contrast with natural sound. Many object to the use of natural sound with its reference as live acoustic music but none have offered any sort of cogent alternative preference until Another Johnson.

 

[Al M.]

Along similar lines, the famous conductor Herbert von Karajan once was asked about recordings vs live, "but live is still better, isn't it?". His answer: "For whom?".

 

[bonzo75]

At a live performance you are at the mercy of the house and your seat. At home you enjoy someone’s best efforts to mike and capture the performance, you control the room and your seat.

I don’t go to a live show unless I get good seats, and I do 99 percent of the time to the shows I want, which is often. Seats are to be booked in advance, or there are some good seats that get cancelled on the day and become available. the only thing I cannot choose is how the performance will turn out, but you win some and lose some.

 

[Another Johnson]

This morning Upscale Audio sent out an email in which the first story was about how some recording industry guys reacted to a demo at Upscale. I do not see a way to link to it, but their reaction was much like my own. And also as has been the reaction of producers, managers, engineers and musicians to systems I’ve entertained with on my own home.

I mentioned in another post that I am a former member of both the Acoustical Society of America and the National Academy for the Recording Arts and Sciences. I know a lot of guys like this. We listen to music. Sound is the whipped cream and cherry. The music is the ice cream, nuts, and hot fudge. Whipped cream and cherries are good. But ice cream, nuts and hot fudge are the reason for buying the sundae.

 

[Another Johnson]

I’ve asked Upscale to post a linkable version of the story. If they do, I’ll link to it.

 

[Kingrex]

what’s the wattage?

My friend says hes positive its push pull. Not sure I want a 300 PP amp. I'm waiting to see is Vu Huang reaponds to my email.

 

[Gregadd]

This morning Upscale Audio sent out an email in which the first story was about how some recording industry guys reacted to a demo at Upscale. I do not see a way to link to it, but their reaction was much like my own. And also as has been the reaction of producers, managers, engineers and musicians to systems I’ve entertained with on my own home.

I mentioned in another post that I am a former member of both the Acoustical Society of America and the National Academy for the Recording Arts and Sciences. I know a lot of guys like this. We listen to music. Sound is the whipped cream and cherry. The music is the ice cream, nuts, and hot fudge. Whipped cream and cherries are good. But ice cream, nuts and hot fudge are the reason for buying the sundae.

i am not sure what this means, but I am headed for the ice cream parlor.

 

[Another Johnson]

i am not sure what this means, but I am headed for the ice cream parlor.

If you expand your view you’ll see that my image is ice cream related.

Get the whipped cream and cherry to go with the main purpose of your visit, ie the ice cream.

I’m at another music performance at the moment. Solo amplified acoustic guitar and vocalist. It just reinforces my earlier posts.

 

[Gregadd]

enjoy the music.

 

[Another Johnson]

enjoy the music.

Listening to another jazz ensemble this afternoon/evening.

Trumpet, female vocalist, drum kit, double bass, electric guitar.

Very nice. Wish I had a professional recording to stream or play at home.

 

[Another Johnson]

Between sets they are streaming a French cafe band over their EV portable PA system.

the recorded music has sound stage, image, and clarity. The live performance does too, but less exaggerated. It is very different, and strongly affected by the performance visuals.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

strongly affected by the performance visuals

...I think this plays a larger role than is often discussed.

 

[Another Johnson]

I’ve asked Upscale to post a linkable version of the story. If they do, I’ll link to it.

They say they will archive it on their web site. So when they do, I’ll post a link.

 

[Another Johnson]

They say they will archive it on their web site. So when they do, I’ll post a link.

Here’s a link to the May 6 Newsletter. It’s the first article.

Newsletter

High-fidelity music systems. Precision selected rare tubes. We treat your system like it's our own. This is Music Illuminated.

upscaleaudio.com

 

[Kingrex]

Good local pub. I was pretty close. My phone mic app said the average db level was about 72 to 74. Peaks were about 80. Less than what many people I meet play at on their stereo. Yet, the energy is much greater at the live event.

Sometimes its hard to put my finger on how my stereo differs. There was no soundstage I noticed. It was a mono-ish projection at my seat. Clarity was no better or worse than my stereo. To me its mostly the attack, speed and energy in the room. The energy somehow differs from stereo energy. Especially the drum energy.

 

[PeterA]

Good local pub. I was pretty close. My phone mic app said the average db level was about 72 to 74. Peaks were about 80. Less than what many people I meet play at on their stereo. Yet, the energy is much greater at the live event.

Sometimes its hard to put my finger on how my stereo differs. There was no soundstage I noticed. It was a mono-ish projection at my seat. Clarity was no better or worse than my stereo. To me its mostly the attack, speed and energy in the room. The energy somehow differs from stereo energy. Especially the drum energy.

once you get the tone right, for me realistic presentation from my stereo system is all about the presentation of energy in and around the room and the sense of immediacy.

The experience is more physical and emotional than it is intellectual as we often discuss in these forums. It is holistic and when I listen to live I do not break it down into bits and pieces as some do when discussing sound from audio systems.

 

[wil]

Good local pub. I was pretty close. My phone mic app said the average db level was about 72 to 74. Peaks were about 80. Less than what many people I meet play at on their stereo. Yet, the energy is much greater at the live event.

Sometimes its hard to put my finger on how my stereo differs. There was no soundstage I noticed. It was a mono-ish projection at my seat. Clarity was no better or worse than my stereo. To me its mostly the attack, speed and energy in the room. The energy somehow differs from stereo energy. Especially the drum energy.

That’s a reasonable spl level. We’re they un-amlplified? (It appears so). Over-amplification is the death of live music!

 

[hopkins]

That’s a reasonable spl level. We’re they un-amlplified? (It appears so). Over-amplification is the death of live music!

The worst is when you hear both the direct sound of acoustic instruments and a speaker on the sidewall.