LampizatOr Horizon - Tube Rolling Paradise

[Steve Williams]

Also well said.

 

[Ron Dijkstra]

Hello All, I still need to inform you about the outcome why my Valvo 2504 had immediately a short circuit when I put it in. It turned out that the adapter from Laslo was fine. The problem was within the Valvo which I bought from @plasmod3 (Ian). When I received it the Valvo I already noticed that the foot of was loose. You could turn the foor 30 degrees. It is clear now that Ian shipped me a questionable tube. He said het did test it before he shipped (and I believe that) but the foot was so loose that it immediately burned when I put it in and switched on the H360. OK shit happens and maybe the transport from Australia did not help but what was not nice is that I paid 1000 USD for the tube and Ian did not want to give me anything back. Instead he claimed it was the adapter from Laszlo or the H360 with a wrong power supply but I now know that this was not the case since my H360 is repaired. The H also had damage due to incident and it cost me 700 USD to have it repaired and shipped. I am very disappointed how Ian handled the situation. Yes, this can happen but if you receive a tube with a loose foot and it burns immediately after you put it in it is not nfair to not pay anything back of the 1000 USD. So, sorry Ian but I can not recommend people to do business with you because I did not ask for a tube with a loose foot and I think it was not fair of you to blame others and not pay anything back of the 1000 USD. I asked you several times... You also refused to send me back the tube and adapter after I had returned it to you for your own inspection. I think people here on the forum should know that you sold a Valvo 2504 with a loose foot (and did not tell about it) and also refused to come to a fair settlement for both parties.

 

[dminches]

I would like to hear the other side of this because right now it looks like you were not dealt with properly. People need to know who they can trust. I assume @plasmod3 will tell his side of the story.

 

[John T]

I seriously doubt if much or any rebuttal can be generated regarding this very unfortunate situation...

 

[rspyder]

Generally, with NOS tubes you take your chances. However, with a loose base/bottle it's easy to spot and easy to fix for the vendor. I bought a matched pair of NOS/NIB 6SN7 tubes and the vendor warned me that the base of one tube was slightly loose. He asked me if I still wanted to proceed with the purchase. I did. The base was only "slightly" loose when it arrived. I used 3 discreet drops of hi-temp clear epoxy. That pair has been in service for over 3000 flawless hours, so far.

Sorry, for your experience. I bought two matched pairs of ECC32 tubes from Ian. One pair enjoyed a long service life in my H1 before giving up the ghost (just prior to my switch to the H360). The second pair (with "coffin" getters) is currently in service in my H360 with no issues.

Ian's refusal to return your TP adapter and the faulty tube is very disconcerting to hear. That's unacceptable because of what it represents.

Ray

 

[plasmod3]

Thank you David

I will post this in sections so as not to miss anything

I have tried hard to work with Ron on this and have given him all the information i could. Unfortunately despite all the facts - he remains convinced it was my fault

The Tube was NOS and a messaged sent to Ron on the 2nd of Mar where using the Roetstor it measured perfect on both plates - a photo of the test resuults and the tube itself was sent to Ron as well ; a copy was also printed and put into the box ; tube was weighed with photo so he can verify the tube tested is the tube received .

The base was not loose when sent ( but more on that later) and the measurement was done after ( from memory; it was 4 months ago) at least a day of burn in using the tube burner that i use for this purpose to identify any issues well beforehand

Ron received the tube put it in and as per his reports with Laszlo's fine adaptor and the tube gave a flashand died

his message verbatim

'
Mar 14, 2025
Hi, I received the tube yesterday. I put it in my Horizon this morning. When I switched it on theire was immediate a bright light and it died. It looks like their was a shortage. Also my Horizon is not workng anymore… I hope the fuse blowed but I need to inspect it. Not nice… What shall we do? Shall I send it back?'

Ron's message above makes the points

A. He mentions foot but he really means base - base is loose . Foot is the Pin Ron and base is the bakelite part the black part not the pins which is the silver parts
B.Foot loose = questionable tube
C. That I claimed it could be the problem with the adaptor or the horizon and that the horizon was damaged by the tube
D. Not fair of me to blame others
E. Refused to send back tube and adaptor when you asked for it

I will address it in these sections . Anything else Ron before i start ?

 

[plasmod3]

Generally, with NOS tubes you take your chances. However, with a loose base/bottle it's easy to spot and easy to fix for the vendor. I bought a matched pair of NOS/NIB 6SN7 tubes and the vendor warned me that the base of one tube was slightly loose. He asked me if I still wanted to proceed with the purchase. I did. The base was only "slightly" loose when it arrived. I used 3 discreet drops of hi-temp clear epoxy. That pair has been in service for over 3000 flawless hours, so far.

Sorry, for your experience. I bought two matched pairs of ECC32 tubes from Ian. One pair enjoyed a long service life in my H1 before giving up the ghost (just prior to my switch to the H360). The second pair (with "coffin" getters) is currently in service in my H360 with no issues.

Ian's refusal to return your TP adapter and the faulty tube is very disconcerting to hear. That's unacceptable because of what it represents.

Ray

read on rob

 

[rspyder]

Hey Marty (our typical Canadian salutation). Thank you for going above and beyond, in both the steps you took to compare SE vs. Balanced operation of the H360 in your system and to explain in simple and cogent terms why SE puts a bigger smile on your face.

I never considered keeping in place my XLR cables between my H360 and preamp and using them as essentially SE wire by simply removing the right bank of tubes. I love elegant solutions. I'll give that a try and report my findings to the group. Kudos, Marty!

Steve, thanks for sharing Lukasz' tip that the right bank pentodes can be left open as a simple way to assess SE operation/sonics. Another reason (in a long list of things) to love the Horizon - for not only it's incredible performance, but its versatility too.

Hello my WBFolks (I recently learned that "folks" is gender neutral). We have a couple of women in our local audio club, so gender neutrality is both appropriate and relevant.

Since my April 6th post (above) I have run my H360 in balanced and SE mode to assess whether I prefer one over the other. My findings, as reported here, may be controversial. But, I hope the reaction from the "SE club" members will fall short of assertions of heresy.

First, I tried using an XLR interconnect in SE mode, as some our our fellow H360 owners have done and prefer. But, it didn't work out for me. The XLR from the back of my H360 into my Octave Jubilee preamp created a very audible ground differential hum. Fortunately, the Jubilee has a ground lift for the balanced input, which mitigated most of the hum when I used it. I then switched to two SE interconnects - DAC to pre and pre to monos. The slight residual hum disappeared completely. In both instances, I did not use dummy/carrier tubes in the right pentode bank (i.e. the right bank seats were empty).

However, the sonic result was the same. Without all 4 power pentode seats occupied, the stage collapsed slightly and overall sound became slightly compressed (e.g. less bloom, sustain and atmosphere). Consequentially, there was a slight loss of inner detail, particularly at the back of the soundstage. Note the use of the word "slight". The sonic difference between Balanced vs. SE was not dramatic but, in my system, it was noticeable.

I recognize that for others, in their systems, there is a preference for SE operation of the H1 and H360. For me, this comparison has provided a greater appreciation for why Lukasz designed the H1 and H360 with "a fully balanced digital engine that produces 4 analog outputs simultaneously". I know from Fred, that Lukasz believes balanced operation provides a better sonic outcome. I agree - in my IMHO.

Daggers out!

 

[Steve Williams]

stuff like this never has a happy ending regardless of which side of the story brings the facts. Perhaps it is a bit of both but as the saying goes "caveat emptor"

I have purchased from both Ian and Laszlo and their packaging is second to none. I suppose the base could have come loose in the shipping. We will never know the facts and it is easy to speculate

@dminches ...I recall a thread by you in the past year where you received what you were told was a tube that's to be NOS and your measurements proved otherwise and you wanted money returned and there was a huge discussion as to what is proper. IIRC you wnted to keep the tube until your money was returned.

I believe that all members here esp those who buy and sell tubes are all good hearted people who dont mislabel or try to sell a faulty tube. At the end of this thread I hope we can all agree that vintage tubes whether NOS, used or NIB are a crap suit. I always ay a little prayer to myself whenever I turn on or off my equipment especially when adding a tube to my system. @dminches is one f the few who always measures before inserting a new tube and this is to be commended. Ron noticed the loose base and I think for all of we tube rollers, that would be a red flag and perhaps a call first from Ron to Ian would have helped but even at that point are theses sales considered final and non refundable and/or non returnable

I also believe that Laszlo sells IMO the very best of adapters and I would have been shocked if it were the adapter. I also know Laszlo well enough that if his equipment was indeed found culpable he would have ponied up and paid all costs to fix


Tis thread to em is a he said, she said and I feel for all parties. So if there is to be anything to comer out of this, let's make it constructive and without mudslinging....please

These are hard learned lessons. Condolensces to Ron as I feel your pain. We all do

 

[Steve Williams]

Hello my WBFolks (I recently learned that "folks" is gender neutral). We have a couple of women in our local audio club, so gender neutrality is both appropriate and relevant.

Since my April 6th post (above) I have run my H360 in balanced and SE mode to assess whether I prefer one over the other. My findings, as reported here, may be controversial. But, I hope the reaction from the "SE club" members will fall short of assertions of heresy.

First, I tried using an XLR interconnect in SE mode, as some our our fellow H360 owners have done and prefer. But, it didn't work out for me. The XLR from the back of my H360 into my Octave Jubilee preamp created a very audible ground differential hum. Fortunately, the Jubilee has a ground lift for the balanced input, which mitigated most of the hum when I used it. I then switched to two SE interconnects - DAC to pre and pre to monos. The slight residual hum disappeared completely. In both instances, I did not use dummy/carrier tubes in the right pentode bank (i.e. the right bank seats were empty).

However, the sonic result was the same. Without all 4 power pentode seats occupied, the stage collapsed slightly and overall sound became slightly compressed (e.g. less bloom, sustain and atmosphere). Consequentially, there was a slight loss of inner detail, particularly at the back of the soundstage. Note the use of the word "slight". The sonic difference between Balanced vs. SE was not dramatic but, in my system, it was noticeable.

I recognize that for others, in their systems, there is a preference for SE operation of the H1 and H360. For me, this comparison has provided a greater appreciation for why Lukasz designed the H1 and H360 with "a fully balanced digital engine that produces 4 analog outputs simultaneously". I know from Fred, that Lukasz believes balanced operation provides a better sonic outcome. I agree - in my IMHO.

Daggers out!

I have always run SE in all 3 of my Horizons but have always filled the right bank if for no ther reason that my OCD mind would not be able to look at the DAC with 2 empty sockets

 

[dminches]

@dminches ...I recall a thread by you in the past year where you received what you were told was a tube that's to be NOS and your measurements proved otherwise and you wanted money returned and there was a huge discussion as to what is proper. IIRC you wnted to keep the tube until your money was returned.

Steve, just to clarify, the seller offered me a small portion of the amount that I paid for both pairs. I refused to send them back for penniies in the dollar. I did send them back to Brent Jessee who confirmed that one pair tested unusable and the other tetaed poorly. Of source, the seller refused to take the tubes back for a refund claiming it was my issue. .

 

[Steve Williams]

Steve, just to clarify, the seller offered me a small portion of the amount that I paid for both pairs. I refused to send them back for penniies in the dollar. I did send them back to Brent Jessee who confirmed that one pair tested unusable and the other tetaed poorly. Of source, the seller refused to take the tubes back for a refund claiming it was my issue. .

I remember vividly David.To me you are the pinnacle of wiseness when it comes to buying vintage tubes. WE should all have tube testers and do as David did when he received the tubes...and to take it one step further he had a neutral 3rd party confirm his findings

 

[godofwealth]

Hello my WBFolks (I recently learned that "folks" is gender neutral). We have a couple of women in our local audio club, so gender neutrality is both appropriate and relevant.

Since my April 6th post (above) I have run my H360 in balanced and SE mode to assess whether I prefer one over the other. My findings, as reported here, may be controversial. But, I hope the reaction from the "SE club" members will fall short of assertions of heresy.

First, I tried using an XLR interconnect in SE mode, as some our our fellow H360 owners have done and prefer. But, it didn't work out for me. The XLR from the back of my H360 into my Octave Jubilee preamp created a very audible ground differential hum. Fortunately, the Jubilee has a ground lift for the balanced input, which mitigated most of the hum when I used it. I then switched to two SE interconnects - DAC to pre and pre to monos. The slight residual hum disappeared completely. In both instances, I did not use dummy/carrier tubes in the right pentode bank (i.e. the right bank seats were empty).

However, the sonic result was the same. Without all 4 power pentode seats occupied, the stage collapsed slightly and overall sound became slightly compressed (e.g. less bloom, sustain and atmosphere). Consequentially, there was a slight loss of inner detail, particularly at the back of the soundstage. Note the use of the word "slight". The sonic difference between Balanced vs. SE was not dramatic but, in my system, it was noticeable.

I recognize that for others, in their systems, there is a preference for SE operation of the H1 and H360. For me, this comparison has provided a greater appreciation for why Lukasz designed the H1 and H360 with "a fully balanced digital engine that produces 4 analog outputs simultaneously". I know from Fred, that Lukasz believes balanced operation provides a better sonic outcome. I agree - in my IMHO.

Daggers out!

On my vintage Pacific I, I too vastly prefer balanced operation, since the rest of my system is usually all balanced ARC electronics. I do run a single-ended system where I use a CJ GAT S2, but compared to the balanced ARC, it sounds quite wimpy to my ears, not to mention noisy as well. I know the arguments for and against, but to my ears, balanced always wins in terms of freedom from noise (even tube artifacts) and of course, the ability to do ultra-long cable runs. I also like the sheer tactility of balanced cabling, where there's a satisfying click as you make a connection.

One of my pet peeves against the high end community is why, in heavens name, having promoted balanced cabling and electronics for decades, did folks decide not go whole hog and use Speakon balanced type speaker cabling. There's a sense of absolute solidity to Speakon connections, and the ghastly spades or banana cables are just so ridiculously lousy in comparison. I own only one esoteric speaker (the Gradient Helsinki) that uses Speakon cabling (which carries on a single cable both the high and low frequencies in a 4-pole system), and each time I have to mess with its cabling, I love the solidity of that connection. It's too late to change high end audio.

A bunch of Brit manufacturers (Quad, Naim et al.) tried to get the high end audio community to switch to DIN connections, and fortunately they failed. That's one connector I hate! But I digress....

 

[rspyder]

I did my best to change the discussion back to a topic more akin to "LampizatOr Horizon - Tube Rolling Paradise" because I have confidence in Ron and Ian that they will work it out between themselves now that the laundry has dried on the line. I trust, at a minimum, that Ron will see his TP adaptor and faulty tube in the mailbox soon.

Ray

 

[Steve Williams]

My system is unique as it is SE BUT I can use either a SE or balanced cable from preamp to amp. I use a balanced cable but as stated my Horizon is run SE with a second set of tubes in the right bank what’s important however is that the outputs of pre and in of amp although XLR have the appropriate pins shorted to make the XLR cable SE

 

[rspyder]

I have always run SE in all 3 of my Horizons but have always filled the right bank if for no ther reason that my OCD mind would not be able to look at the DAC with 2 empty sockets

Hi Steve. Thanks for reminding me that I missed one important clarification in my report out comparing SE with Balanced operation. When I said "Balanced", I mean using the same type of pentode in the power seats of my H360. I did take the opportunity to try different pentodes in the left bank during the SE evaluation. The result was the same (as noted in my post above).

Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't add that I really love the Horizon DAC, whether the H1 or H360. Lukasz hit it out of the park with both!

Ray

 

[Steve Williams]

Ive owned 3 Horizons, the H1, then the H1 with XDMI and now the H360. Like you I love the sound regardless of SE or balanced. These vintage tubes are not only expensive but many unobtainium so for me having an SE system helps my wallet

 

[rspyder]

There's no denying that SE provides an advantage for the wallet.

 

[godofwealth]

CJ has long argued that balanced designs incur needless expense and that money could instead be used for higher quality passive parts. CJ designs aren’t cheap by any means. I’m listening now to my CJ GAT S2 preamp feeding single-ended into a JJ 322 SET to my Quad 2905’s. The GAT takes just two 6922 tubes, so retubing is nominal even with premium NOS tubes. It’s not as quiet as my ARC balanced, but certainly incredibly musical sound.

 

[plasmod3]

Thank you David

I will post this in sections so as not to miss anything

I have tried hard to work with Ron on this and have given him all the information i could. Unfortunately despite all the facts - he remains convinced it was my fault

The Tube was NOS and a messaged sent to Ron on the 2nd of Mar where using the Roetstor it measured perfect on both plates. The base was not loose when sent ( but more on that later) and the measurement was done after ( from memory; it was 4 months ago) at least a day of burn in using the tube burner that i use for this purpose to identify any issues well beforehand

Ron received the tube put it in and as per his reports with Laszlo's fine adaptor and the tube gave a flashand died

his message verbatim

'
Mar 14, 2025
Hi, I received the tube yesterday. I put it in my Horizon this morning. When I switched it on theire was immediate a bright light and it died. It looks like their was a shortage. Also my Horizon is not workng anymore… I hope the fuse blowed but I need to inspect it. Not nice… What shall we do? Shall I send it back?'

Ron's message above makes the points

A. He mentions foot but he really means base - base is loose . Foot is the Pin Ron and base is the bakelite part the black part not the pins which is the silver parts
B.Foot loose = questionable tube
C. That I claimed it could be the problem with the adaptor or the horizon and that the horizon was damaged by the tube
D. Not fair of me to blame others
E. Refused to send back tube and adaptor when you asked for it

I will address it in these sections . Anything else Ron before i start ?

I imagined that is enough time for Ron to reply if there are more issues and he hasnt so thats a base to start off from . I have explained this all to him before and will provide screenshots - but as is sometimes ; ppl get emotional about their money and they want someone to blame.

A & B. Base loose

These are old tubes and the glue at the base can become brittle after a very long time not just for this tube but for any old tube. Easily fixed with a few drops of glue at the base . It was not loose when i sent it across - Ron received it loose.

Regardless loose doesnt affect the function of the tube .

When Ron's tube was received fault finding of the tube showed that 1 filament was working and the other is pretty much blown . If the loose base as Ron suggested has 'shorted ' the tube - as you can imagine...the short will be before the current reaches the filaments , it wont even touch the filaments and the filament will not be blown ; also the current will take the path of least resistance ; it cannot ignore a short at the base and instead choose to light up the filament here which is essentially a resister that glows like what you find in a lightbulb( not led) . That cannot be an answer - virtually impossible - 101 electronics. If you for eg put a wire across the base of a lightbulb and hook it up to mains will the lightbulb still light? - quite impossible

A loose base tube is not a quesitonable tube as explained above . it happens all the time. Over decades the glue gets brittle.

C. So if there is a bright light then died - it means one thing. That is the filament was INTACT when the tube was inserted into his sockets. No way for the filament to flash if it is a broken filament - it wont let any current through at all . So it flashed and then died - that tells us a second thing - the filament was overvoltaged. We know our tubes back to end - this tube is a 4v rectifier hence we use an adaptor - we cannot natively use it in the horizon . . So we know 2 things - A. the filament was intact before power up ; and B. powering up killed the filament. The tube arrived with the filament intact

So what happened. I was quite curious so i got Ron to send me Laszlo's adaptor as well . I swear his adaptors look better and better with time ; a real piece of art Anyway . I dont think what ever happened the adaptor got of without pain as well . The resistor in it no longer measures 0.5ohm as it should be but 0.9 ohm and the ground pin shorted with one of the active pins on the octal socket. I told Ron i wasnt sure ...if anything a higher resister puts in less voltage so it couldnt burn out - but i figured it all out lateron

If a resistor is compromised and burns from within - damaging it - the resistance goes up . Laszlo knows his stuff so his adaptor would be a 0.5ohm resistor in there ; the fact that it now measures 0.9ohm means the resistor is damaged and from a higher than allowed voltage x current going through it - damaging that resistor . I hope that adaptor is not used or sold to anyone atm before laszlo looks at it; it wont be nice to the next person. See photos attached of my measurements

then

Ron sent me a message as well saying the lampizator dealer knows of a problem like this! ( Photo of message attached as well ) Great i thought - we have a solution. But given where Ron was - i didnt even want to go there

In summary

1. we know filament intact on arrival
2. we know it died when plugged in
3. we know the adaptor resistor got damaged too
4. Lampi has a clue and it happened with other ppl as well damaging adaptor and tube

D. Facts are facts. Does a doctor get blameed by the patient for telling him he has a diagnosis ? Well this doctor got blamed and flamed it looks like too . Sometimes as we say...it is not the medicine but the patient; he hears not what is the truth.

E. I truly dont understand why ppl do this.... See screenshot. Tube and adaptor returned to him with tracking number as well by Australian post., this information sent to him too. Why would i hold it back, as i mentioned in another message he paid for it and it is his ; no question about it.

I have substantiated this all down below.

Ron was also made aware that the tubes i sell are nos old stock , we test them out 100% before it is sent out but we cannot be responsible after it leaves our hands.

I understand Ron is probably more emotional about the money than anything else ; i feel though his message here has gone too far and was selective in its facts . There really is no other goal here but his thoughts to harm impressions of me on a very public forum.

And to give him credit - there are other personal messages too from him threatening to do this very thing he has done here; if i did not give him his money; I refuse to bow down to such threats from an ignoramus., Indeed no amount of facts or explanations did matter and i did try very very hard. Can';t help someone who has gone into a restaurant , ate half the dish , vomited it back up and says he wants his money back. Wow!