Pardon me for momentarily hijacking this thread. I just recently moved from the GAT2 to the ART88. Extremely quiet and great improvement in tonality, texture, and transparency...
LampizatOr Horizon - Tube Rolling Paradise
- Thread starter Golum
- Start date
Can anyone share some insight regarding EL34? My power tubes are P17C, OS1's and KT88's used in the 360. I run Balanced. For some reason the KT88's get no love. I've been reading about Mullard double O Getter Welded Plates, Mullard XF1, and Holland Amperex. I'm "thinking' about giving EL34 a try but I want to hear from someone who is more familiar with them before purchasing...
I'm a fan of the KR KT88. An excellent tube in the H360. Certainly better than the Tung-Sol KT170 if you prefer a fuller, slightly warmer and more analog sound, still w/considerable detail I have not tried the "new" Mullard branded EL34 tubes. Perhaps others here have. It's very hard to find a matched NOS quad of Mullard EL34s.
kt88s are too noisy metaal base 6550 least noisy so best those if you like this class
el34 doesnt do much and avoid the mullards in general they lose detail . if anything el156. i wont mention another tube above the el156 - its pretty much impossible to find but that is the golden ticket.
you dont need matched quads only pairs for the horizon; right and left banks do seperate functions and for seperate effects on the sound itself
I've mentioned KT88 to a few and I got the impression their noses got twisted up. Maybe I was wrong? Definitely way better IMO too over KT170. I was looking at some vintage Mullards, but not inexpensive! I might just hold tight with what I have. Just when you think your tube obsession has left, it comes roaring back out of the Blue!
Good memory. I have used EL51s for 3+ years now. I have tried other tubes and they sounded good too but nothing stopped me from returning to the EL51s.
Buying NOS tubes is risky. If folks are not willing to take on that risk, do not buy a tube DAC and try to roll tubes some of which are over 70 years old. That said, it does suck to lose money on a tube.
Regarding Ian, I have personally bought over two dozen tubes and an additional dozen of his adaptors from him - @plasmod3. He is meticulous to test and document everything prior to shipping. He does his job fully upfront and takes great pleasure from sharing his collection and findings with the passionate Lampizator community. The tubes I have bought from him are all quite expensive and knowingly took on the risk of shipping from AU to the US. We have spoken on the phone a number of times. I cannot emphasize enough how kind, truthful and knowledgeable he is. With the two issues we had to troubleshoot he went way out of his way to diagnose and find a solution. Ian has pushed what is possible, imho, from the Horizon more than anyone else to date. Of course others like Laszlo as well. Ian introduced approaches here like different pairs of pentodes running balanced before anyone else. And frankly people scoffed at him here initially, unfortunately. I do not think he has been given the credit he is due. My current top set of pentodes is actually a mix of four different carefully curated pentodes that is arms lengths above all other combos I have heard. Thanks to Ian. Yes, you do not need to balance the left and right channel (but of course i do not recommend just trying this on your own).
Frankly, there is noone I trust more about tube experience than Ian and he does not rest as this is his passion. Just my two cents fwiw on my third Horizon here.
In all my 100 plus tube purchases to date for the Horizon, I have only had two fail so far. There appear to be many reasons a tube can fail. To blame the seller of a tube, given the lengths Ian goes to vet, describe and document his collection prior to selling (what does he possibly have to gain otherwise), given the vast array of reasons for a tube failure, albeit rare, and that Ian documented above in this specific situation and accusation, imo is unfair and to cast him in such light based on what seems like not a fully story is unfortunate to say the least.
Btw, using the Olympus and I/O, I cannot take the Horizon 360 out of the chain. The 360 is such an incredible DAC that breathes life into music in a way that I have yet to hear matched. Anyway, onwards.
Regarding Ian, I have personally bought over two dozen tubes and an additional dozen of his adaptors from him - @plasmod3. He is meticulous to test and document everything prior to shipping. He does his job fully upfront and takes great pleasure from sharing his collection and findings with the passionate Lampizator community. The tubes I have bought from him are all quite expensive and knowingly took on the risk of shipping from AU to the US. We have spoken on the phone a number of times. I cannot emphasize enough how kind, truthful and knowledgeable he is. With the two issues we had to troubleshoot he went way out of his way to diagnose and find a solution. Ian has pushed what is possible, imho, from the Horizon more than anyone else to date. Of course others like Laszlo as well. Ian introduced approaches here like different pairs of pentodes running balanced before anyone else. And frankly people scoffed at him here initially, unfortunately. I do not think he has been given the credit he is due. My current top set of pentodes is actually a mix of four different carefully curated pentodes that is arms lengths above all other combos I have heard. Thanks to Ian. Yes, you do not need to balance the left and right channel (but of course i do not recommend just trying this on your own).
Frankly, there is noone I trust more about tube experience than Ian and he does not rest as this is his passion. Just my two cents fwiw on my third Horizon here.
In all my 100 plus tube purchases to date for the Horizon, I have only had two fail so far. There appear to be many reasons a tube can fail. To blame the seller of a tube, given the lengths Ian goes to vet, describe and document his collection prior to selling (what does he possibly have to gain otherwise), given the vast array of reasons for a tube failure, albeit rare, and that Ian documented above in this specific situation and accusation, imo is unfair and to cast him in such light based on what seems like not a fully story is unfortunate to say the least.
Btw, using the Olympus and I/O, I cannot take the Horizon 360 out of the chain. The 360 is such an incredible DAC that breathes life into music in a way that I have yet to hear matched. Anyway, onwards.
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Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
It never ceases to amaze me that WBF members are willing to shell out a hundred grand or more on Taiko Olympus servers and Horizon 360s, but not spend a few hundred bucks getting a good tube tester. Without a tube tester on hand, putting a NOS tube in a Lampi is like playing Russian roulette. I use a slightly fancier Amplitrex tester, but even that costs around 3 grand, a relatively paltry sum compared to a Taiko or a H360. Having a tube tester on hand lets you quantify your tube condition as you use it and educates you on how your tubes are aging. Buy one today! Don’t penny pinch on things that matter.
My tests also show an improvement via balanced….Hello my WBFolks (I recently learned that "folks" is gender neutral). We have a couple of women in our local audio club, so gender neutrality is both appropriate and relevant.
Since my April 6th post (above) I have run my H360 in balanced and SE mode to assess whether I prefer one over the other. My findings, as reported here, may be controversial. But, I hope the reaction from the "SE club" members will fall short of assertions of heresy.
First, I tried using an XLR interconnect in SE mode, as some our our fellow H360 owners have done and prefer. But, it didn't work out for me. The XLR from the back of my H360 into my Octave Jubilee preamp created a very audible ground differential hum. Fortunately, the Jubilee has a ground lift for the balanced input, which mitigated most of the hum when I used it. I then switched to two SE interconnects - DAC to pre and pre to monos. The slight residual hum disappeared completely. In both instances, I did not use dummy/carrier tubes in the right pentode bank (i.e. the right bank seats were empty).
However, the sonic result was the same. Without all 4 power pentode seats occupied, the stage collapsed slightly and overall sound became slightly compressed (e.g. less bloom, sustain and atmosphere). Consequentially, there was a slight loss of inner detail, particularly at the back of the soundstage. Note the use of the word "slight". The sonic difference between Balanced vs. SE was not dramatic but, in my system, it was noticeable.
I recognize that for others, in their systems, there is a preference for SE operation of the H1 and H360. For me, this comparison has provided a greater appreciation for why Lukasz designed the H1 and H360 with "a fully balanced digital engine that produces 4 analog outputs simultaneously". I know from Fred, that Lukasz believes balanced operation provides a better sonic outcome. I agree - in my IMHO.
Daggers out!
Great idea! Any suggestions on affordable models? Or different price ranges?
@ Ian (plasmod), fact remains that the tube did not work when it arrived. What compensation do you suggest for the 1000 USD I paid to you and the 700 USD to repair my H360 and the 600 USD Synergistic fuse of 4 I blew and the shipping of the all the goods to Australia where you live and the DAC to Lamoizator? Do you just want to write e-mails and make your profit on a tube which did not work or are you willing to be fair and pay something back? Shit can happen Ian but it is how people deal with it to be fair to each other... I think it is not fair that you sell a 1000 USD tube and blame other people like the adapter of Laszlo not being good, Lampizator put in a special transformer in my DAC and not take ANY responsibility... Do you want to take some responsibility and be fair or not? It is up to you but I think it is good or future customers to know...
As a moderator of the WBF, I try to look out for the members of this forum, as well as the manufacturers. On one hand, if members are being ripped off by a manufacturer and the claims are legit, we let the thread go on so that our members are made aware. On the other hand, we also see things from the other side of the coin. We do not allow our members to come in and bash a manufacturer to get a situation resolved. The WBF is not a place to settle disputes.
Here are my thoughts on this particular situation. By your own admission quoted above, you knew that there was an issue with the tube prior to installing it, yet you installed it anyways? I do not see how the resulting damage can be pointed at the seller/manufacturer. Simply put, the tube should have never been installed and the seller should have been made aware of the issue immediately. We all know "things happen" during shipping and that what leaves a facility doesn't always make it to the destination in the same exact condition. We all also know that tubes are a fragile commodity.
Since we are moderators and not mediators, I will not get involved in any mediation of this matter, but I will say this. I find it very ingenuine to place blame on a manufacturer/seller, when honestly, you should have known better than to insert that tube into anything and contact the seller immediately. Had you done that and gotten the issue resolved prior to inserting a known issue into your H360, then none of the resulting damage to the unit would have happened.
Tom
Sorry, but I not agree. Ian knew that the base of the foot was loose but he did not tell me before I bought it. If he would have told me I would not have bought it. He told me that he would test it before went out so I assume that it was it tested tube which would work. I am a non technical person so I thought OK it is an old tube but it was tested. But as you say things can go wrong but then it would be fair to come to some kind of settelment. It is not normal to take your full profit and no responsebility if you deliver a NON working product and blame other people like the adapter of Laszlo and/or lampizatot. I do I see that wrong? I have learned in my life that if you sell something you should certain guarantee or service and be fair to each other. I bought the a used tube especially of a WBF member because I thought people are fair and honest to each other. Why did he not tell me the tube had a loose base. He told me that he knew this but that it was not a problem... Bottom line he sold me a shaky tube but did NOT tell me...yet he is taking his full profit. Does not sound right to me and I do not expect this from a WBF seller....
I would NEVER use a tube, where the base rotates 30 degrees! It would have been returned immediately. One shouldn't have to be technically minded to know that there was a clear issue with that tube.
Again, this is not to be publicly debated on the WBF. Any settlement or discussion moving forward should be between you and the seller. Privately.
Tom
Again, this is not to be publicly debated on the WBF. Any settlement or discussion moving forward should be between you and the seller. Privately.
Tom
You should have asked here in the forum. This kind of thing can be repaired very quickly with water glass glue and fine quartz sand. Let it cure for 24 hours, like new.
Or this
Due to the capillary action of superglue, it automatically draws into the gap between the base and the glass bulb. Remove any excess immediately.
P.S
Ask first and then put the tube in, I know later we' know everything better...for the future
Or this
Due to the capillary action of superglue, it automatically draws into the gap between the base and the glass bulb. Remove any excess immediately.
P.S
Ask first and then put the tube in, I know later we' know everything better...for the future
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