Introspection and hyperbole control

That is not a polite or proper thing to say Mike. We have membership from both sides of the fence. We can discuss technical points but not constantly teasing each other in this manner.

I hope I don't have to post any more reminders of this.

I would like to second that as well Mike.

These are the type of comments that serve absolutely no purpose and are construed as trolling. Kindly cease and desist from making these argumentative posts

This will serve as my warning as well
 
There is not even agreement among digital proponenets.
I watched that and there is nothing to disagree with. They are basics of sampling and signal processing and anyone who understands them, will explain them the same way.
 
Duplicate
 
That is not a polite or proper thing to say Mike. We have membership from both sides of the fence. We can discuss technical points but not constantly teasing each other in this manner.

I hope I don't have to post any more reminders of this.


It was just a joke, nothing personal. Anyways we are all on the same side of the fence. We just want to experience the sound we love from our favourite audio formats.

We finally discovered a solution for both lovers of LP's and digital to have their cake and eat it too :)

Victory for everyone on post #221!! We can now all finally unite as 1!! :)


http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19882-Multi-bit-DSD-versus-PCM/page23
 
I watched that and there is nothing to disagree with. They are basics of sampling and signal processing and anyone who understands them, will explain them the same way.
Dont you own some hi res downloads?
 
Playing an LP and playing a digital rip of an LP are not the same thing. Just like taking a bath and a shower are not the same thing. They both get you clean, but the experience is very different.

And if, as some are saying, the digital rip is actually lossy, then the two will not sound the same. I will not have an opinion until I can do the comparison for myself, but I am not willing to just accept someone's opinion about such an important matter. I need to listen for myself. But again, even if they sound the same, the experience of playing the two is not the same.

And if they sound the same, what will next year's digital technology offer us that is any different? How could it be further improved if it is able to achieve a perfect copy?
 
Was it the technology or the music?

The music delivery back in the 60s...from analog turntables. The experience when we were teenagers was unique, the impact not the same today.
It was the state of our brain back then that was more profound in pure awe...for me for sure.

I never recaptured the first time I listened to say...The Rolling Stones - Let it Bleed's album, or Pink Floyd - Wish you were Here's LP.
Those moments from back then @ my age were impacting as nothing comparable today.

Sure we can get better remasters in analog and digital mediums today, but no remastering can get that state-of-mind we had half century ago.

That was what I meant...deeper introspection.
 
Playing an LP and playing a digital rip of an LP are not the same thing. Just like taking a bath and a shower are not the same thing. They both get you clean, but the experience is very different.

And if, as some are saying, the digital rip is actually lossy, then the two will not sound the same. I will not have an opinion until I can do the comparison for myself, but I am not willing to just accept someone's opinion about such an important matter. I need to listen for myself. But again, even if they sound the same, the experience of playing the two is not the same.

And if they sound the same, what will next year's digital technology offer us that is any different? How could it be further improved if it is able to achieve a perfect copy?

Peter, you're right, until you have heard a quad DSD vinyl rip played back on the same system as the vinyl was source from, you are in no position to judge whether or not you can tell them apart.

When tomorrow's digital playback gear is better. This will mean it will benefit by being able to accurately reproduce tomorrow's digital source material. We are already at the point of being able to accurately reproduce yesterday's analog with today's digital playback gear.

Use Bruce's service and see for yourself.
 
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Analog or digital, for me, in my own house, with my own 'budgetphile' gear; they both lack dynamics of live music...big time.

Anyone here has a rig that provides dynamics @ the same level of live music?
Some recordings do have great dynamics...but the sound reproduction system is the weak link...the loudspeakers and the amplification. IMO
Any thoughts?
 
Peter, you're right, until you have heard a quad DSD vinyl rip played back on the same system as the vinyl was source from, you are in no position to judge whether or not you can tell them apart.

When tomorrow's digital playback gear is better. This will mean it will benefit by being about to accurately reproduce tomorrow's digital source material. We are already at the point of being about to accurately reproduce yesterday's analog with today's digital playback gear.

This quote is different from what you wrote in #373. I don't know what happened but the words "you're right" were left out of the original post. Regardless, yes, I agree that I am in no position to judge whether or not I can tell them apart, precisely because I have not done the comparison. So, I don't know. Isn't that what I wrote in my post #371?

What I am saying is that even if they "sound" the same, which I acknowledge is certainly possible (though I have not done the comparison myself yet) the experience of playing an LP is different from the experience of swiping one's finger across a piece of glass and scrolling through digital files and tapping. That is all. They both get you to the music, but they get you there in very different ways, and I suggest that it may effect how you become emotionally connected to the sound. Just like taking a bath versus taking a shower. I hope that clarifies what I was trying to write.

Pardon me if I wait to hear for myself if "we are already at the point of being about to accurately reproduce yesterday's analog". In fact some think we can already reproduce today's analog.
 
Analog or digital, for me, in my own house, with my own 'budgetphile' gear; they both lack dynamics of live music...big time.

Anyone here has a rig that provides dynamics @ the same level of live music?
Some recordings do have great dynamics...but the sound reproduction system is the weak link...the loudspeakers and the amplification. IMO
Any thoughts?

I agree, NorthStar.
 
This quote is different from what you wrote in #373. I don't know what happened but the words "you're right" were left out of the original post. Regardless, yes, I agree that I am in no position to judge whether or not I can tell them apart, precisely because I have not done the comparison. So, I don't know. Isn't that what I wrote in my post #371?

What I am saying is that even if they "sound" the same, which I acknowledge is certainly possible (though I have not done the comparison myself yet) the experience of playing an LP is different from the experience of swiping one's finger across a piece of glass and scrolling through digital files and tapping. That is all. They both get you to the music, but they get you there in very different ways, and I suggest that it may effect how you become emotionally connected to the sound. Just like taking a bath versus taking a shower. I hope that clarifies what I was trying to write.

Pardon me if I wait to hear for myself if "we are already at the point of being about to accurately reproduce yesterday's analog". In fact some think we can already reproduce today's analog.

Yes for a small percentage of folks who grew up in the era of analog and mechanical apparatuses (the industrial age), you will never be able to replace the feeling you get when experiencing the joy the format gave you in your younger years with a lifeless, digital apparatus that simply isn't real in your mind. And I realize this. But, we also need to acknowledge that this is the real reason that vinyl is preferred by the older generation. It's much the same as getting behind the wheel of that classic muscle car you always dreamed about in your younger years but, now you can finally afford it. You don't buy the 1955 Mercedes gullwing because it can do a faster lap on the Nurburgring than the 2016 AMG GTS, You do it for the feeling it brings you. The prestige, the nostalgia, and the feeling.

But from another angle, we don't want to mislead the younger generation who doesn't have this deeply embedded emotional attachment with the format into believing they will get something more out of their music by spending 100K + on a vinyl rig, over a few grand on a digital rig. For me this is the real issue.

The real bottleneck with digital as we discussed in the other thread I linked to, is the source material. But with guys like Bruce offering services like this, there is no reason that we need the vinyl rig to offer the same actual sound in our listening rooms anymore.
 
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A young kid, not even born yet, one day is going to write for Analog Planet, continuing Mikey Fremer's legacy.
We'll all be dead, but still reading his reviews from under our tombstones or from the above heaven's ashes...the loyal fervent analog romantics.
The rest, the majority alive, they'll be on a totally different planet...with digital air calibration.

The best music experience is from the best acoustic halls, designed specifically for best sound propagation. ...Live.
@ home we take serious pleasure @ imitating life @ the service of high fidelity. ...The imitating art of emotional live music.
Each note well reverberated and harmoniously accompanied by the right word(s) to describe.

And when there are no more words...only the music remains...with silent emotions.
 
A young kid, not even born yet, one day is going to write for Analog Planet, continuing Mikey Fremer's legacy.
We'll all be dead, but still reading his reviews from under our tombstones or from the above heaven's ashes...the loyal fervent analog romantics.
The rest, the majority alive, they'll be on a totally different planet...with digital air calibration.

The best music experience is from the best acoustic halls, designed specifically for best sound propagation. ...Live.
@ home we take serious pleasure @ imitating life @ the service of high fidelity. ...The imitating art of emotional live music.
Each note well reverberated and harmoniously accompanied by the right word(s) to describe.

And when there are no more words...only the music remains...with silent emotions.

It won't be long before a small box the size of a smartphone can replace a full amp/pre/DAC/phono and all the cables. We are in the information age now. The progress that was made over the last 5 years, will soon be made in a month. And eventually a day!

The Mayan's knew thousands of years ago what most don't realize today. Study the Mayan Calendar to get a better picture on how technology advances. It ended in 2012. Perhaps because that's when we hit warp speed :)

http://www.tokenrock.com/explain-mayan-calendar-67.html
 
It won't be long before a small box the size of a smartphone can replace a full amp/pre/DAC/phono and all the cables. . . .

As this statement, itself, is close to, if it is not already, an introspection and hyperbole control violation how about we get you out of trouble by modifying the statement to limit it to your opinion and to your sonic preferences:

It won't be long before a small box the size of a smartphone can replace, for my ears and the sonic preferences I happen to prefer, a full amp/pre/DAC/phono and all the cables.
 
Yes for a small percentage of folks who grew up in the era of analog and mechanical apparatuses (the industrial age), you will never be able to replace the feeling you get when experiencing the joy the format gave you in your younger years with a lifeless, digital apparatus that simply isn't real in your mind. And I realize this. But, we also need to acknowledge that this is the real reason that vinyl is preferred by the older generation. It's much the same as getting behind the wheel of that classic muscle car you always dreamed about in your younger years but, now you can finally afford it. You don't buy the 1955 Mercedes gullwing because it can do a faster lap on the Nurburgring than the 2016 AMG GTS, You do it for the feeling it brings you. The prestige, the nostalgia, and the feeling.

But from another angle, we don't want to mislead the younger generation who doesn't have this deeply embedded emotional attachment with the format into believing they will get something more out of their music by spending 100K + on a vinyl rig, over a few grand on a digital rig. For me this is the real issue.

The real bottleneck with digital as we discussed in the other thread I linked to, is the source material. But with guys like Bruce offering services like this, there is no reason that we need the vinyl rig to offer the same actual sound in our listening rooms anymore.

Just like previously saying "shhhh, the vinyl guys don't realize that digital has moved beyond the CD", you are again wrong about them growing up in the industrial age. Some of it is about nostalgia I'm sure, but it is also about slowing down and appreciating a more tactile experience. Relaxing and being washed over with great sound. The "Slow Food" movement is a bit like this. It is about the whole experience.

I never lusted after American 70s muscle cars. More a 1973 911S or similar. I once had a 1971 911T Targa in my 20s. Nice car. I also don't think the vinyl enthusiasts are trying to mislead the younger generation about the joys of analog. They are discovering this themselves.

Has Bruce compiled an entire vinyl rip catalog that he has made from all of the LP owners who have sent him their records for ripping on his SME 30 turntable? There must be some great music floating around in his archives and it would avoid having to track down and purchase those great LPs on Ebay. That is a great service and would be worth considering if one has the digital players to play the music.
 

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