How do you know when you are done?

[Doc76]

Surely we can have different opinions. But we are now in the field that a copy can be considered better than the original, although we can't rebuild the original from the copy. Surely possible in the individual subjective field, not a new subject.

Thank you Micro,

I agree we can and do have different opinions. And there are probably a 1000 + other valid opinions that haven’t been stated here.

Highend audio is a very subjective hobby. However, this is WTB. I understand this series of posts includes what sounds “the best” - vinyl or digital. As good as my digital is (and it’s excellent) vinyl still sounds better.

Analogue is Analogue and digital is digital. They sound different from one another. Vinyl has the warmness of realness (or live music, natural sound) more so than digital does. It’s just that simple.

Admittedly, my digital is very close to my vinyl now. I could live with my digital system alone and sell my TT and be satisfied. However, this doesn’t mean that digital is better - just more convenient because of my age related problems.

I enjoy owning my own media and not being completely dependent on an internet company for consistent service. Indeed, internet equipment and connections will change over time. Streaming means you will be constantly upgrading your equipment. On vinyl I’ll update a cart every now and then. Then again no streaming company is actually making a profit yet, so the future for streaming is sort of uncertain… Then again, streaming company’s ripoff the artists. At least with vinyl the artists make more allowing them to produce more music …

My Studer A80s say differently - it is still my reference in analog sound. Probably I will sell them sometime soon, I am feeling they are not needed anymore.

The discussion is concerning vinyl, not tape. You haven’t sought out good vinyl, because you don’t own a vinyl setup. So, you don’t go to stores looking for quality vinyl pressings to play on your non-existent TT. Elementary my dear Micro.

It’s surprising that you still own Studers, if you are so completely satisfied with your digital. I noticed you also said you would “probably” sell them soon, a very indefinite statement if your digital is better. This said, I wouldn’t sell the Studers until streaming companies begin making a profit.

 

[Anton D]

The most tired road in Audiophileville...

I think vinyl haters spend more time thinking about vinyl than vinyl lovers do!

Don't they have ASR for that?

 

[Newton John]

Admittedly, my digital is very close to my vinyl now. I could live with my digital system alone and sell my TT and be satisfied.

I did just that six years ago and ultimately found that I wasn't satisfied by digital alone. So I came back to vinyl. Now, I'm done.

 

[Al M.]

The most tired road in Audiophileville...

I think vinyl haters spend more time thinking about vinyl than vinyl lovers do!

Who here is a vinyl hater? I don't see anyone.

Yet a good number of vinyl lovers obviously do think a lot about vinyl, having the incessant need to proclaim the alleged superiority of their preferred medium whenever they can.

Don't they have ASR for that?

ASR is the measurement crowd. Here we have a less myopic and more encompassing approach, discussing subjective preferences while also acknowledging that measurements do play a role.

Certainly a preference for digital, or the lack of a need for vinyl in one's life, falls within the realm of subjective possibilities, does it not?

Or do you hold that a preference for vinyl has to be an objective truth for any discerning audiophile? If so, you would in a way be no different from the "objective" ASR crowd that holds digital must be objectively better because it measures better.

 

[Anton D]

Or do you hold that a preference for vinyl has to be an objective truth for any discerning audiophile? If so, you would in a way be no different from the "objective" ASR crowd that holds digital must be objectively better because it measures better.

I’m saying that vinyl critics ‘onanize’ about the topic like it’s a Farrah Fawcett poster.

It’s a tired trope that insinuates itself into almost any topic to the point of tedium bordering on Gashlycrumb level ennui.

Digital, vinyl…it’s all part of what’s best! Choosing camps lowers all boats.

 

[thedudeabides]

I agree we can and do have different opinions. And there are probably a 1000 + other valid opinions that haven’t been stated here.

Unlikely if you include all the other (numerous, repetetive) A v D banter on WBF.

 

[Al M.]

I’m saying that vinyl critics ‘onanize’ about the topic like it’s a Farrah Fawcett poster.

It’s a tired trope that insinuates itself into almost any topic to the point of tedium bordering on Gashlycrumb level ennui.

Funny that you would say this when the current discussion started when some vinyl lovers made some very questionable, even conspiratorial, statements about digital vs analog some 5 pages back, on thread page 17 to be precise. You think those should have gone unchallenged?

Funny that it's rarely lovers of digital who start a digital vs analog discussion.

It seems that vinyl lovers are the ones obsessed with the topic.

 

[thedudeabides]

Funny that it's rarely lovers of digital who start a digital vs analog discussion.

It seems that vinyl lovers are the ones obsessed with the topic

I believe you or someone else said that before. Worth repetition and, I believe, still true. And it seems to invade other non related threads like a virus.

 

[Site7000]

Funny that you would say this when the current discussion started when some vinyl lovers made some very questionable, even conspiratorial, statements about digital vs analog some 5 pages back, on thread page 17 to be precise. You think those should have gone unchallenged?

Funny that it's rarely lovers of digital who start a digital vs analog discussion.

It seems that vinyl lovers are the ones obsessed with the topic.

And yet, here you are.

 

[Newton John]

Funny that you would say this when the current discussion started when some vinyl lovers made some very questionable, even conspiratorial, statements about digital vs analog some 5 pages back, on thread page 17 to be precise. You think those should have gone unchallenged?

Funny that it's rarely lovers of digital who start a digital vs analog discussion.

It seems that vinyl lovers are the ones obsessed with the topic.

This setting digital only formats against vinyl is rather silly. Does it matter who started it? That goes back to the start of CD.

I wouldn't be without either. They complement each other due to their different strengths and weakness.

 

[tima]

Funny that you would say this when the current discussion started when some vinyl lovers made some very questionable, even conspiratorial, statements about digital vs analog some 5 pages back, on thread page 17 to be precise. You think those should have gone unchallenged?

Funny that it's rarely lovers of digital who start a digital vs analog discussion.

It seems that vinyl lovers are the ones obsessed with the topic.

conspiratorial ?

 

[Al M.]

conspiratorial ?

Definition of CONSPIRATORIAL

of, relating to, or suggestive of a conspiracy… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Rexp]

The digital-only crowd should welcome the vinyl resurgence as now some 'LP versions' are available on streaming like this one, haven't compared it to the CD but it sounds great and presumably better than the CD:

 

[microstrip]

Thank you Micro,

I agree we can and do have different opinions. And there are probably a 1000 + other valid opinions that haven’t been stated here.

Highend audio is a very subjective hobby. However, this is WTB. I understand this series of posts includes what sounds “the best” - vinyl or digital. As good as my digital is (and it’s excellent) vinyl still sounds better.

Nice to read your views. Our system, our preference, independently of being WBF. The thread is mainly on "being done" - IMO we do not become done when we get the best, just when we individually decide to be done. It is the nature of sound reproduction.

Analogue is Analogue and digital is digital. They sound different from one another.

Surely.

Vinyl has the warmness of realness (or live music, natural sound) more so than digital does. It’s just that simple.

Live music is not warm - but people can get used the warmness of some vinyl to compensate for the large difference between real and stereo sound reproduction. BTW, in WBF we should avoid the words "natural sound" ...

Admittedly, my digital is very close to my vinyl now. I could live with my digital system alone and sell my TT and be satisfied. However, this doesn’t mean that digital is better - just more convenient because of my age related problems.

Digital will never sound like vinyl unless you play digital rips of LP's. Then probably many people will not be able to separate them - but I am guessing.

I enjoy owning my own media and not being completely dependent on an internet company for consistent service.

Ok, this kind of pressure is enough to introduce a strong bias in the process of preference. There are many kinds of audiophilia nervosa. Some people are permanently adjusting the tonearm for the SRA. fearing they are not on the optimal set up. IMO it is problem of them, not a vinyl problem.

Indeed, internet equipment and connections will change over time. Streaming means you will be constantly upgrading your equipment.

If we want to, surely. I am going through my second streamer in eight years, I expect mine to keep stable for the next five. But surely I will change other components of my system meanwhile ...

On vinyl I’ll update a cart every now and then. Then again no streaming company is actually making a profit yet, so the future for streaming is sort of uncertain…

Ok, I now see better your fears and perspective. Probably we should have stayed with cylinders, 78 rpm LP's and purely mechanical devices to get peace of mind. I own them just for the fun of it.

Then again, streaming company’s ripoff the artists. At least with vinyl the artists make more allowing them to produce more music …

Oh, yes, I see artists getting a lot from people buying used quality LP recordings from the 70's.

The discussion is concerning vinyl, not tape. You haven’t sought out good vinyl, because you don’t own a vinyl setup. So, you don’t go to stores looking for quality vinyl pressings to play on your non-existent TT. Elementary my dear Micro.

I own two very good vinyl setup's and a good collection of top LP's. I have posted on it several times in WBF, no need to repeat it.

It’s surprising that you still own Studers, if you are so completely satisfied with your digital.

I am wanting to sell them, not giving them away, at the proper moment to the proper people in the adequate conditions. Not an easy task, unfortunately.

I noticed you also said you would “probably” sell them soon, a very indefinite statement if your digital is better.

I can't know the future, it is why I said "probably". They are being advertised elsewhere.

This said, I wouldn’t sell the Studers until streaming companies begin making a profit.

Well, I need funds to keep the hobby going on ...

 

[microstrip]

The most tired road in Audiophileville...

I think vinyl haters spend more time thinking about vinyl than vinyl lovers do!

Don't they have ASR for that?

Sorry, but I considered the nice picture in your post funny until I read the content. Who are the "vinyl haters"? Why referring to ASR in WBF?

WBF is a good example of a free forum, where people express their opinions and spend a good time. No need to introduce words like "hate" or attack people using other audio forums.

 

[cjfrbw]

Another interesting testimonial on the digital vs. analog bloody war with a twist: making digital 'better' with analog? Also, the 'nightmare' of advancing but ever changing 'technology' with planned obsolescence and unrecoverable media.
An old timer testifies from a mastering perspective. There seems to be a strange trend of 'translating' digital masters by transferring to analog tape to 'improve' the sound. The medium is the massage? It makes the midrange 'pop'?

 

[Doc76]

Nice to read your views. Our system, our preference, independently of being WBF. The thread is mainly on "being done" - IMO we do not become done when we get the best, just when we individually decide to be done. It is the nature of sound reproduction.

If you already have the best then why would you desire something less than what you already own? It seems you’re advocating going backwards. Maybe you run Benjamin Button Audio, I don't know?

Live music is not warm - but people can get used the warmness of some vinyl to compensate for the large difference between real and stereo sound reproduction. BTW, in WBF we should avoid the words "natural sound" ...

Music that is live is warm, that is rich, full, and pleasing. I’m sorry you don’t enjoy organic sound.

According to Google, “natural sound is an accurate and realistic portrayal of an original sound or soundscape, creating a feeling of being present in the original environment without artificial coloration or simulation.”

I didn’t know you were the official spokesman of WBF. Congratulations! I’m so sorry that you can find enjoyment in something other than “natural sound.”

Ok, this kind of pressure is enough to introduce a strong bias in the process of preference. There are many kinds of audiophilia nervosa.

Pressure, lol. I also own a collection of my own CDs, as stated earlier in the thread. You have too much compression in your reading.

Ok, I now see better your fears and perspective. Probably we should have stayed with cylinders, 78 rpm LP's and purely mechanical devices to get peace of mind. I own them just for the fun of it.

This is your reply to ‘no streaming company is actually making a profit yet.’ So, many early morning laughs.

Sticking to Vinyl is wise if streaming companies don’t begin making a profit.

Oh, yes, I see artists getting a lot from people buying used quality LP recordings from the 70's.

I’m sure artists are enjoying their $0.01284 per stream from Tidal, (the highest in the industry) much more. Only 800 streams for a cup of Starbuck’s coffee.

 

[mtemur]

It’s amusing to see people sneer at digitally sourced vinyl, as if they’ve uncovered some profound truth.

Do they ever realize that, by their own “logic,” it’s just as ridiculous to listen to analog-sourced digital? If purity is the holy rule, then I suppose all those music sourced from analog master tapes magically become invalid the second they’re digitized.

And what about streaming? Do they proudly tell themselves how “stupid” it is to stream classic, rock, jazz, or anything else from the analog era, sourced from tape? Or maybe they only allow themselves to hear DDD recordings, because—heaven forbid—a hint of conversion contaminate their sacred pure chain.

 

[Al M.]

It’s amusing to see people sneer at digitally sourced vinyl, as if they’ve uncovered some profound truth.

Do they ever realize that, by their own “logic,” it’s just as ridiculous to listen to analog-sourced digital? If purity is the holy rule, then I suppose all those music sourced from analog master tapes magically become invalid the second they’re digitized.

False analogy.

Many vinyl enthusiasts are raving about the modern vinyl resurgence as if people are now converting to or rediscovering the old-fashioned genuine analog experience, in a return to "purity". That is just not true, and needs to be pointed out.

As far as I know, no fan of digital has ever claimed that listening to analog-sourced digital is bad or somehow less "pure".

 

[Doc76]

As far as I know, no fan of digital has ever claimed that listening to analog-sourced digital is bad or somehow less "pure".

That’s because analogue is superior.