How do you know when you are done?

[microstrip]

App. 70% of the music listened to in the U.S.A. - even by the young - is older music (Google it). And of course, though my streaming is very close (it’s exceptional, I really enjoy it), older music still sounds better on vinyl.

Well, it is exactly this music that is released as "digitally processed" vinyl and is a majority part of the vinyl resurgence sold in mainstream shops.
Only a few people manage to listen to old pressings - most of them have been ruined by use along time.

If people desire better LPs - i.e. non-digital - then they may enquire at places such as: Acoustic Sounds, Classic Records Clarity, Electric Recording Company, fone’, Craft, and Vinyl me Please. Of course, you need a great TT that is properly set up (I suggest by a Pro) to hear the differences.

Surely. But we are mainly discussing the current "vinyl resurgence", not audiophiles or collectors.

So, it’s still possible to obtain new analogue records despite what the nay sayers may say. And if the Vinyl Resurgence continues, who knows how many new production facilities will open …

Yes, production facilities are opening - clients just have to download files with music and art work and the boxes of LPs are sent in a short time.

I suggest you analyse facts and proper sources, not the messengers.

I have helped younger people who are part of the vinyl resurgence - they do not show any desire to become audiophiles. Just want to have nice moments listening to music.

 

[Al M.]

Well, it is exactly this music that is released as "digitally processed" vinyl and is a majority part of the vinyl resurgence sold in mainstream shops.
Only a few people manage to listen to old pressings - most of them have been ruined by use along time.

It is fascinating how many audiophiles keep sticking their head in the sand and keep pretending that the broader modern vinyl resurgence is about an old-fashioned all analog experience, rather than being just a life-style phenomenon fed by digitally sourced material.

Sure, there are great audiophile modern all-analog pressings, but these are a niche market in terms of sales and don't make a dent in the many millions of sales from digitally sourced vinyl.

Also, for example for every all-analog The Original Source release by Deutsche Grammophon there are certainly several releases of digitally sourced vinyl by the same label, based on recent recordings that are also released on digital file and/or on CD.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

it's easy to just assume all new vinyl listeners are ignorant and sheep all following along blindly. not realizing that listening to digitally sourced vinyl is better just consumed thru a dac.

i think new vinyl user's concerns about the digital part of the pressings vary, and are not generally one way or the other. some care about tangible aspect of physical media and the analog reading of the pressing. some care about an analog recording process. others care about the music and the actual recording quality and whether it's digital or analog is not significant.

what they buy might not match up exactly with their priorities or insights, as loyalty to artists and the music likely trumps other factors (as it should)......mostly. they appreciate what the vinyl listening experience does for the music and how they feel about it. as some here do too.

and i doubt they care much about a bunch of WBF codgers and winning the arguments about how whether digital diminishes/invalidates interest in/significance of vinyl.

 

[Al M.]

and i doubt they care much about a bunch of WBF codgers and winning the arguments about how whether digital diminishes/invalidates interest in/significance of vinyl.

Hehe. Unlike most discussions on WBF the debate about the nature of the modern vinyl resurgence is not one about opinions, but about facts.

 

[Atmasphere]

it's easy to just assume all new vinyl listeners are ignorant and sheep all following along blindly. not realizing that listening to digitally sourced vinyl is better just consumed thru a dac.

That isn't true if the LP release does not contain the compression of the digital release.

You may recall I ran an LP mastering operation for some years (I sold it after Apollodisc burned down). When we mastered LPs from digital files we had to ask to get a version without the compression. Again, digital releases tend to have DSP compression as they have to be able to play in a car. We would have them cut out all the DSp except normalization.

 

[Al M.]

That isn't true if the LP release does not contain the compression of the digital release.

You may recall I ran an LP mastering operation for some years (I sold it after Apollodisc burned down). When we mastered LPs from digital files we had to ask to get a version without the compression. Again, digital releases tend to have DSP compression as they have to be able to play in a car. We would have them cut out all the DSp except normalization.

These were pop/rock music I assume.

For classical music there is no compression of digital files compared to the vinyl release. If anything, it is more likely the latter that is dynamically compressed compared to the original recording, especially for recordings of large orchestra.

Certainly, there are audiophile vinyl pressings, including 45 rpms, which try to preserve the dynamics of orchestral recordings, but these are/were not the rule.

 

[Rexp]

That isn't true if the LP release does not contain the compression of the digital release.

You may recall I ran an LP mastering operation for some years (I sold it after Apollodisc burned down). When we mastered LPs from digital files we had to ask to get a version without the compression. Again, digital releases tend to have DSP compression as they have to be able to play in a car. We would have them cut out all the DSp except normalization.

I've always wondered exactly why digital recordings on vinyl/tape sometimes sound much better than the digital release, the vinyl master seems to filter out digital distortion.

 

[Doc76]

Well, it is exactly this music that is released as "digitally processed" vinyl and is a majority part of the vinyl resurgence sold in mainstream shops.
Only a few people manage to listen to old pressings - most of them have been ruined by use along time.

Micro,

Thanks for your opinions.

While analogue pressings are the best, digitally processed LPs still sound better than streaming or CDs on a properly set up quality TT. He that has ears, let him listen!

I’m not sure where you obtain your information from (or if you just make it up), but where I live there are plenty of old LPs available. Older people retire. They get rid of their collections. Are all of them perfect, no, but many are.

The fact is you’re not interested in quality analogue sound, therefore you don’t seek out quality sources, and haven’t for a long time..

I have helped younger people who are part of the vinyl resurgence - they do not show any desire to become audiophiles. Just want to have nice moments listening to music.

So the few younger people you have helped are representative of all young people in the entire world? Uhm, interesting…

Your blanket, unverified, non-factual, statements are truly

 

[Massimo66]

Mi piace. Pensi che siano in molti ad aver raggiunto questo punto?

Sì, tutti coloro che hanno adottato l'eremitaggio e non vanno in giro ad ascoltare altri sistemi nei negozi o nelle case altrui.

 

[PeterA]

Hehe. Unlike most discussions on WBF the debate about the nature of the modern vinyl resurgence is not one about opinions, but about facts.

It’s easy to look up numbers regarding sales. But I don’t know if the discussion about digital vinyl and then calling new LP sales the vinyl resurgence covers everyone who is buying some of the new inexpensive, turntables and cartridges. Some may simply be re discovering the joy of playing vinyl records. I have three friends all middle aged music lovers who have recently bought turntables. I assure you they are not listening to Taylor Swift’s latest records. Each one of them borrowed my 1980 Denon Direct drive turntable from my college days. It still sounds great. I told them to go on eBay and find something similar, but they all decided to buy new turntables. Of course I don’t know how typical this is.

The facts covered by record sales don’t tell us about motivation. About that, this is likely speculation and opinion.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Yes, all those who have adopted the hermitage and do not go around listening to other systems in shops or other people's homes.

agree, it's one way to do it.

 

[Atmasphere]

These were pop/rock music I assume.

For classical music there is no compression of digital files compared to the vinyl release. If anything, it is more likely the latter that is dynamically compressed compared to the original recording, especially for recordings of large orchestra.

Certainly, there are audiophile vinyl pressings, including 45 rpms, which try to preserve the dynamics of orchestral recordings, but these are/were not the rule.

Pop and jazz. But the same applies to classical. You don't need to compress the LP release either. Traditionally that's simply been to reduce the time engineering the groove cut; there was never a tape recording made that exceeds the dynamic range of an LP. With some of the advances that QRP (Analog Productions' pressing plant) has done with their pressing machines the noise floor has been pushed back a good 15 dB, within spitting range of 16 bit digital.

 

[Lagonda]

It is fascinating how many audiophiles keep sticking their head in the sand and keep pretending that the broader modern vinyl resurgence is about an old-fashioned all analog experience, rather than being just a life-style phenomenon fed by digitally sourced material.

Sure, there are great audiophile modern all-analog pressings, but these are a niche market in terms of sales and don't make a dent in the many millions of sales from digitally sourced vinyl.

Also, for example for every all-analog The Original Source release by Deutsche Grammophon there are certainly several releases of digitally sourced vinyl by the same label, based on recent recordings that are also released on digital file and/or on CD.

Lets be fair, the statistics do not take into account all the used vinyl being sold on facebook marketplace, discogs or eBay, often the good vintage stuff. Every time an older person dies the vinyl collections gets sold on again, mostly without anyone keeping record of it.

 

[microstrip]

Micro,

Thanks for your opinions.

While analogue pressings are the best, digitally processed LPs still sound better than streaming or CDs on a properly set up quality TT. He that has ears, let him listen!

Surely we can have different opinions. But we are now in the field that a copy can be considered better than the original, although we can't rebuild the original from the copy. Surely possible in the individual subjective field, not a new subject.

I’m not sure where you obtain your information from (or if you just make it up), but where I live there are plenty of old LPs available. Older people retire. They get rid of their collections. Are all of them perfect, no, but many are.

Surely I am influenced by my local experience. I have been a vinyl aficionado for long, a few of my friends still are, and I bough many used LPs until a few years ago. I even reported some personnel adventures in this forum years ago, probably you do not have read or do not remember them. This particular subject of digital vinyl has been debated several times before in WBF, see for example https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...yl-vinyl-vs-digital.33313/page-10#post-734895 .

I copy form this thread:

"I reported my traumatic experience with vintage valuable LPs in WBF some years ago. A coleague inherited from an old uncle about ten thousand classic music LPs and a couple of thousand CDs. The LPs filled his garage, he did not own a turntable and asked me for advice on their value and how to sell them. Decca, Telefunken, DG, EMI, Philips, RCA's, Columbias, Argo, an huge collection of LPs from the early 60's to the 80's in pristine covers and boxes - it looked like the Ali Baba cave. I took a large sample with me and listened - a complete horror, all the LPs sounded like we were played in a noisy kitchen where eggs were being fried. I took another sample - the same. No cleaning or processing could help - the old uncle, who was a knowledgeable musicologist, had ruined the precious LPs along years with a worn stylus that was never replaced. I considered getting them just for the boxes and librettos but fortunately could resist ..."

Fortunately I also reported a great buy of an entire collection of more than one thousand of great mint recordings.

The fact is you’re not interested in quality analogue sound, therefore you don’t seek out quality sources, and haven’t for a long time..

My Studer A80s say differently - it is still my reference in analog sound. Probably I will sell them sometime soon, I am feeling they are not needed anymore.

The fact is that I went through several expensive, high quality turntables in the last seven years - I got them used, never had any trouble selling them privately without large losses. Vinyl enthusiasts could not resist to bargains, Currently friends and dealers reported that such turntables are extremely hard to sell.

So the few younger people you have helped are representative of all young people in the entire world? Uhm, interesting…

Surely not. But as far as I we are in the same boat. And nothing I read from outside says something different. But I will be happy to get information from your sources.

Your blanket, unverified, non-factual, statements are truly

Sorry, as fair as I see you did not add nothing other than distrust and blanket statements to my post. But I hope to learn nice episodes from you and others on the subject.

 

[microstrip]

It’s easy to look up numbers regarding sales. But I don’t know if the discussion about digital vinyl calling it. The vinyl resurgence covers everyone who is buying some of the new inexpensive, turntables and cartridges, and we discovering the joy of playing vinyl records. I have three friends all middle aged music lovers who have recently bought turntables. I assure you they are not listening to Taylor Swift’s latest records. Each one of them borrowed my 1980 Denon Direct drive turntable from my college Days. It still sounds great. I told them to go on eBay and find something similar, but they all decided to buy new turntables.

The facts covered by record sales tell you motivation. That is partly speculation and opinion.

It is a well known effect - our friends have the same taste than us, we feel happy referring to it.

The "vinyl resurgence" is not the ever existing movement of a few old or middle age people going back to turntables to listen to old LPs. Surely we can associate them to vinyl resurgence to feel the movement, semantics is free in this forum.

I respect and admire vinyl fans, but as far as I see it the number of audiophiles dropping vinyl is increasing - we should ask the big dealers in WBF if you want to know the truth. As people say, vinyl is part of the religion, but not part of the life for most of them.

 

[PeterA]

And some day I may stop sailing and use my motor boat. I will consider it a tragedy.

 

[Al M.]

It’s easy to look up numbers regarding sales. But I don’t know if the discussion about digital vinyl and then calling new LP sales the vinyl resurgence covers everyone who is buying some of the new inexpensive, turntables and cartridges. Some may simply be re discovering the joy of playing vinyl records. I have three friends all middle aged music lovers who have recently bought turntables. I assure you they are not listening to Taylor Swift’s latest records. Each one of them borrowed my 1980 Denon Direct drive turntable from my college days. It still sounds great. I told them to go on eBay and find something similar, but they all decided to buy new turntables. Of course I don’t know how typical this is.

That's nice to hear, but it's all anecdotal.

The numbers tell a clear story:
The vast majority of modern vinyl pressings are digitally sourced, and so are all the top seller LPs. This link lists the top 10 sellers from 2024:

Infographic: Taylor Swift Dominates U.S. Vinyl Sales

This chart shows the best-selling vinyl albums in the United States in 2024.

www.statista.com

The modern vinyl resurgence is mainly driven from digitally sourced material:

 

[PeterA]

That's nice to hear, but it's all anecdotal.

The numbers tell a clear story:
The vast majority of modern vinyl pressings are digitally sourced, and so are all the top seller LPs. This link lists the top 10 sellers from 2024:

Infographic: Taylor Swift Dominates U.S. Vinyl Sales

This chart shows the best-selling vinyl albums in the United States in 2024.

www.statista.com

The modern vinyl resurgence is mainly driven from digitally sourced material:

I’m not disputing that at all. It’s unclear to me whether or not people referring to the “vinyl resurgence” are talking only about the actual records or also about increased sales of inexpensive, turntables, and cartridges. Is that just not part of the discussion here? Isn’t that the part that is affecting audio files and the industry and the manufacturers and even websites like this?

 

[tima]

The modern vinyl resurgence is mainly driven from digitally sourced material:

All playing of all records is driven by turntables. Any vinyl resurgence is not due to digital masreing.

 

[microstrip]

All playing of all records is driven by turntables.

Yes.

Any vinyl resurgence is not due to digital masreing.

It is supported by digital mastering as shown by the MoFi scandal. Do you remember what triggered it? The simple fact that Thriller would see a run of 40,000 . The all analog system could not issue the needed LPs at the proper cost in the numbers needed for the vinyl resurgence. I suggest interested people look at the way modern vinyl pressing facilities operate.

Again, we can play semantics, but the "vinyl resurgence" is closely associated with the low cost of digital vinyl. If the market was dependent on all analog pressings the majority of mainstream turntable manufacturers would close.