EMM Labs Pre2 Reference Preamplifier

[Cascais]

I have been using EMM Labs CD players for years--currently the XDS1--with good success and wonder if anyone has heard the Meitner-designed Pre2, preamp. It costs in the 16,000€ range in Europe and there aren't a ton of reviews. Any possible comparison of this solid-state unit to the ARC Ref5se would be helpful.

 

[edorr]

I have been using EMM Labs CD players for years--currently the XDS1--with good success and wonder if anyone has heard the Meitner-designed Pre2, preamp. It costs in the 16,000€ range in Europe and there aren't a ton of reviews. Any possible comparison of this solid-state unit to the ARC Ref5se would be helpful.

When I read your headline, the first thing that came to mind was - make sure to listen to the ARC refe 5SE (which I own) as well. I have only heard the much older EMM Switchman and there is no comparison with the ARC Ref5SE. Another consideration is this - if you buy new, you'll take a 40%-50% depreciation hit on the EMM labs the moment you open the box (there is one listed for $8,500 on audiogon at the moment). The Ref5SE will keep much more of its value and still be worth 80%-70%of what you paid for it after a year. If you have to make a decision without being to able to hear either one of the units first, I would definitely get the ARC.

 

[Cascais]

I already own the REF5 SE after using the REF5 so am just curious about the EMM Labs preamp, perhaps for future reference if I go back to solid state. I am glad you think that the REF5 SE will keep its value since it seems that the REF5 took a hit when ARC introduced the SE model.

 

[edorr]

I already own the REF5 SE after using the REF5 so am just curious about the EMM Labs preamp, perhaps for future reference if I go back to solid state. I am glad you think that the REF5 SE will keep its value since it seems that the REF5 took a hit when ARC introduced the SE model.

Don't burst my bubble. I have convinced myself the Ref5SE is a rock solid investment, that I can easily offload for what I paid for it should I ever want to go some other direction.....

 

[Parmenter Sound]

Emm Labs Pre-2

I have been using EMM Labs CD players for years--currently the XDS1--with good success and wonder if anyone has heard the Meitner-designed Pre2, preamp. It costs in the 16,000€ range in Europe and there aren't a ton of reviews. Any possible comparison of this solid-state unit to the ARC Ref5se would be helpful.

Hi
I use 2 high end preamplifiers with the EMM Labs XDS1 CD/SACD player for my audio demonstrations in our music room.
Firstly the Lamm LL2.1 deluxe all valve preamplifier and the EMM Labs Pre-2, both provide wonderful sound matched with the Pass Labs X350.8 stereo amplifier and my Rockport Technologies Atria loudspeakers.

The EMM Labs Pre-2 & EMM Labs XDS1 have a wonderful synergy and the blackest background I have heard in my audio system especially when wired in full balanced connection with the Pass Labs X350.8.

Inner details are incredible with the EMM Labs Pre-2 to what is on the CD/SACD, Ed Meitner has designed a incredible preamplifier with the EMM Labs Pre-2 that is very truthful to the original recording.

I would recommend auditioning the EMM Labs Pre-2 in your audio system, leave it on set up in your system playing for a least 2 weeks, do not chop and change in a head to head auditions as this is not the best way to compare audio electronics, components need to settle and stabilize to hear them at their best. Play one system set up then after 2 weeks change out the preamplifiers and then run the system with the different preamplifier for the same period, then go back to the EMM Labs Pre-2 and compare.

Here is a great review link on the EMM labs Pre-2.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0811/emm_labs_pre2_preamplifier.htm

 

[Cascais]

Thanks Jason for your reply. EMM Labs is a fine company and if I switched to solid state would certainly try the Pre-2. (The other preamp on my short list would be darTZeel, which costs about twice as much but has a great phono stage.) I am currently listening to the EMM Labs new reference CD-SACD player, XDS1-V2, and find the sound clearly superior to the XDS1, more body, more relaxed (analogue), better highs and bass. You also get a USB input which is of no use to me presently but I may dabble in computer audio in future. BTW I recently discovered that the XDS1-V2 prefers a Nordost power cable to the Kimber PK10 I was using.

 

[Parmenter Sound]

I am using the EMM Labs Pre-2 now with the Pass Labs X350.8 stereo amplifier & Rockport Technologies Atria loudspeakers, this is a wonderful sounding combination. The EMM Labs Pre-2 matches with the Pass X350.8 amplifier really well.
In my music studio I will be matching the Pass Labs XS preamplifier with my Pass Labs XA 160.8 amplifiers, I have the Rockport Technologies new Cygnus loudspeakers on my wish list for this system.

 

[Cascais]

I find that my system (XDS1-V2, ARC Ref 5SE, Dartzeel NHB108) has an explosive quality - wide dynamic range - especially with brass and percussion, even with small speakers (SF Mementos). How would you rate the EMM Labs Pre-2 in that regard?

 

[Parmenter Sound]

I find that my system (XDS1-V2, ARC Ref 5SE, Dartzeel NHB108) has an explosive quality - wide dynamic range - especially with brass and percussion, even with small speakers (SF Mementos). How would you rate the EMM Labs Pre-2 in that regard?

Cascals if you really like the sonic qualities of the ARC Ref SSE matched with the Dartzeel why do you want to change.

Preamplifiers in my opinion are the Soul of your audio system and thus provide the tonal dynamic signal being sent to your power amplifier, it comes down to your personal tastes and sonic matching with your power amplifiers.

I think Phil Gold reviewed the EMM Labs Pre-2 very well below.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0811/emm_labs_pre2_preamplifier.htm

"Losing Less, And Thus Offering More
Don't think for a moment the Pre2 is adding dynamics to any of these fine recordings, and it certainly isn't creating detail that isn't already in the recording or building a better three dimensional space than was captured in the studio. What is does is simply to lose less information along the way than the JC2 or any other preamplifier I've reviewed. I can't tell you that it's perfect, but on the other hand I can't fault it either. It's the purest and most accurate component I have had the pleasure of listening to (so far). I will be delighted to find a preamplifier that works significantly better... or just as well at a lower cost. For now the bar has just been raised. Whether the few notches that bar has inched up are worth the very considerable investment will be up to you. I've made my choice. Meet my new reference preamp."


I think we all look for different qualities in our audio systems and I think this changes over time as our music preferences change or evolve from our live music experiences.
Personally my music presentational tastes are now more inline with preamplifiers like the EMM Labs Pre-2 and the Pass Labs XS.
The Pass Labs XS in another preamplifier to seriously consider, see review comments below.

The Absolute Sound review by Anthony Cordesman.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/pass-xs-preamp-and-xs-300-mono-power-amplifiers/?page=2

 

[Yuen A.]

Hi all,

I just got my EMM Labs Pre2 (manufactured in 2011) upgraded to the current standards (2019), and the improvement in sound quality is dramatic! In his review of the Goldenear Triton One Loudspeaker (22 Oct 2014), Anthony H. Cordesman said: " I was also impressed by their ability (the Triton One) to reproduce the different but excellent ability of the EMM Labs Pre-2 SE preamp and the Pass Labs Xs preamp to reproduce the subtlest nuances of very-low-level musical detail in quiet passages without a hint of noise. Both are great preamps, and it takes a really good speaker to reveal the full range of differences between them." That is what he said back then, and this observation applies even more so now with the upgrading of the Pre-2 to current standards! My updated Pre2 sounded absolutely amazing - great purity of sounds, accurate timbre, great palpable sense of presence, great dynamics (both micro and macro), and great retrieval of hall ambience - this observation is based on what I heard from the album - Tutti! Orchestral Sampler, Reference Recordings SACD: Track 3, 8, 10, 11, and 12.

 

[pdubya]

Yuen
What changes were made to the nuts’n’bolts?
Thanks
Parker

 

[Yuen A.]

Yuen
What changes were made to the nuts’n’bolts?
Thanks
Parker

Hi Parker, According to Shahin, Greg completely updated my unit, including analog and power systems. If you are interested in upgrading your Pre2, give them your serial numbers so that they know what needs changing.

My main point is that my EMM LABS DA2, and my upgraded Pre2 (+ Constellation Audio Centaur Stereo + Magico Q speakers, Magico Q-Sub 15 Subwoofers + Shunyata Research Sigma power cables + Critical Mass System Maxxum rack, amp stands, footers + Shunyata power conditioners ) are able to reproduce the subtlest nuances of very-low-level musical detail in quiet passages. What you get from these particular recordings (MA recordings: MA on SA: Selection from the MA catalog) (a sampler SACD, 2006) are: great purity of sounds, great and accurate timbre, great palpable sense of presence, great dynamics (both micro and macro), and great retrieval of hall ambience. And most important of all, these recordings (on my sound system) sounded real, not necessarily sounded like vinyl, but sounded real.

 

[pdubya]

Thanks Yuen. Is your preamp now considered an updated Pre2 or is it now equivalent to the top-of-the-line PRE? I don't suppose they changed the casework, so I'm guessing the former. But maybe the latter as well, more or less ...?

 

[pdubya]

Pre2v.2?

 

[Yuen A.]

Thanks Yuen. Is your preamp now considered an updated Pre2 or is it now equivalent to the top-of-the-line PRE? I don't suppose they changed the casework, so I'm guessing the former. But maybe the latter as well, more or less ...?

Hi Parker, To be honest, I don't know but he did said that it's now up to current standards. The casework is still the same. However, the low level details are amazing/ Now, many excellent recordings sounded real.

 

[pdubya]

Glad you’re able to find more listening pleasure in your gear. I’ll contact Shahin for the skinny.

 

[pdubya]

And thanks for keeping us rare EMM birds updated.

 

[Yuen A.]

Thanks Yuen. Is your preamp now considered an updated Pre2 or is it now equivalent to the top-of-the-line PRE? I don't suppose they changed the casework, so I'm guessing the former. But maybe the latter as well, more or less ...?

Hi Parker, the following comments from Fred Crowder (December 5, 2016) may provide the answer: "Finally the new preamp should be available early next year and I will be getting a review sample. In the interim, Ed has incorporated much of the technology in the latest version of the existing preamp." (EMM Labs MTRX Review, Dagogo)

Have you contacted Shahin about the Pre2 upgrade?

 

[pdubya]

Yuen
Shahin says no upgrades for my 3-4 yo Pre2. But sounds like for those with older Pre2's potential upgrades are worth pursuing.
Parker

 

[Yuen A.]

Hi Parker

Actually, the reason for sending my Pre2 to the factory was to get it repaired. However, they not only repaired my pre but at the same time update it. Over the next couple of weeks there will be a couple of forthcoming reviews on the new Emm Labs Pre. I believe the new pre is going to be considered one of the best, if not the best solid-state preamp.