Degritter Mark II

[Tangram]

I used distilled water when we still had a service that delivered it to our house (my wife used it for cooking and drinking when our kids were little.) These days (because I’m lazy) I just use RO-treated tap water. What deleterious effects is my sloth introducing? I can’t hear any, that’s for certain.

 

[Neil.Antin]

These days (because I’m lazy) I just use RO-treated tap water. What deleterious effects is my sloth introducing? I can’t hear any, that’s for certain.

The purity of RO is dependent on the input water which varies widely such as U.S. EPA Freshwater Explorer (arcgis.com), select the Measured Conductivity NWIS tab and note that TDS is = 1/2 the indicated conductivity (uS/cm). If your locality has low TDS tap-water, the RO output can be very good - easy to measure as previously discussed. Otherwise, you can always add a demineralizer to your RO system Deionization (DI) Media, Mixed Bed Color Changing Resin Replacement – LiquaGen Water. If your RO unit has a re-mineralizer, put the DI resin column before the re-mineralizer.

 

[LarryK]

The machine shows up today.

Any hints on getting started?

 

[tima]

The machine shows up today.

Any hints on getting started?

Read the manual.

Read this thread -- lots of good advice here.

 

[LarryK]

I’m up and running.

I had the circuit breaker trip twice when using a light duty power strip. I switched to a heavy duty 50 ft extension cord and the tripping went away.

I’ve ordered a high quality power strip from TrippLite and will see how well that works.

 

[tima]

I’m up and running.

I had the circuit breaker trip twice when using a light duty power strip. I switched to a heavy duty 50 ft extension cord and the tripping went away.

I’ve ordered a high quality power strip from TrippLite and will see how well that works.

Nice that you started -- I encourage everyone to clean their records. Hoping the Degritter serves you well.

I use an APC PH12 surge protector for my setup which requires 5 outlets, except the wash tank pump goes into the wall.

 

[LarryK]

Nice that you started -- I encourage everyone to clean their records. Hoping the Degritter serves you well.

I use an APC PH12 surge protector for my setup which requires 5 outlets, except the wash tank pump goes into the wall.

Thanks. It will certainly be better than not cleaning them because I don’t want to listen to the vacuum on my other cleaner.

Did anybody on here recommend some extended drying times at lower fan speeds to make it more pleasant to use the machine?

I tried 5 minutes of drying on a low fan speed. Does that make sense? It seems to work ok.

 

[tima]

Thanks. It will certainly be better than not cleaning them because I don’t want to listen to the vacuum on my other cleaner.

Did anybody on here recommend some extended drying times at lower fan speeds to make it more pleasant to use the machine?

I tried 5 minutes of drying on a low fan speed. Does that make sense? It seems to work ok.

A quick search of this thread for the word 'drying' showed no particular recommendation.

After dealing with record cleaning from manual cleaning with LAST to a rudimentary Record Doctor vacuum and on to increasingly sophisticated machines, the general rule I adopt is do what works effecitvely for you. 'Effectively' means adopting optimal chemicals and materials and technique for the type of cleaning at hand and the utilitarian 'works for you' means just that. It's the results you get that tell the tale. It may take a bit of trial-and-error to learn or discover how to get the best results -- do not hesitate to try your ideas.

If what works for you is to reduce fan speed in order to reduce fan noise, then go for it. You can experiment with the amount of time to run the fan (5,6,7 minutes or whatever it takes) -- there is no right answer as it somewhat depends on relative humidity in you cleaning area. The bottom line is you don't want any moisture on the record when you put it in its sleeve or when you play it.

For the most part I use air drying for 4-5 records at a time within the context of a Heppa filter at some distance. But air drying is not part of the Degritter protocol which includes a fan -- partly because Degritter offers no place outside their machine's moist environment to place the record for drying and it meana to be.a one-stop automated design.

If your machine supports it, I suggest a clean water rinse before drying.

 

[abeidrov]

Hello, I wonder if anyone compared Degritter to Kirmuss with regard to the quality of cleaning. I have Kirmuss, but 40 minutes to one hour per record is very tiring. So, I am looking for a more convenient solution, and Degritter is the obvious first choice.
On the other hand, I am just curious, if you can achieve the same result with one Degritter 5 minutes cycle as with 5 to 8 Kirmuss 5 minutes cycles, which I normally do?

 

[bonzo75]

Hello, I wonder if anyone compared Degritter to Kirmuss with regard to the quality of cleaning. I have Kirmuss, but 40 minutes to one hour per record is very tiring. So, I am looking for a more convenient solution, and Degritter is the obvious first choice.
On the other hand, I am just curious, if you can achieve the same result with one Degritter 5 minutes cycle as with 5 to 8 Kirmuss 5 minutes cycles, which I normally do?

fremer has given details on Kirmuss iirc, you can email him and ask

 

[tima]

Hello, I wonder if anyone compared Degritter to Kirmuss with regard to the quality of cleaning. I have Kirmuss, but 40 minutes to one hour per record is very tiring. So, I am looking for a more convenient solution, and Degritter is the obvious first choice.
On the other hand, I am just curious, if you can achieve the same result with one Degritter 5 minutes cycle as with 5 to 8 Kirmuss 5 minutes cycles, which I normally do?

I mean no offense to you as an owner. My opinion of Kirmuss is akin to the sound made by a duck. The answer to your question is yes, and likely a better result -- cannot say a complete cycle with rinse in 5 minutes but under 10.

fremer has given details on Kirmuss iirc, you can email him and ask

I know you like MF and you're trying to help. However if you have knowlege and look at his coverage of modern LP cleaning systems you'll realize this is not his forte.

 

[abeidrov]

fremer has given details on Kirmuss iirc, you can email him and ask

Not sure I follow you: I do not need any details on Kirmuss as I own it.

 

[LarryK]

A quick search of this thread for the word 'drying' showed no particular recommendation.

After dealing with record cleaning from manual cleaning with LAST to a rudimentary Record Doctor vacuum and on to increasingly sophisticated machines, the general rule I adopt is do what works effecitvely for you. 'Effectively' means adopting optimal chemicals and materials and technique for the type of cleaning at hand and the utilitarian 'works for you' means just that. It's the results you get that tell the tale. It may take a bit of trial-and-error to learn or discover how to get the best results -- do not hesitate to try your ideas.

If what works for you is to reduce fan speed in order to reduce fan noise, then go for it. You can experiment with the amount of time to run the fan (5,6,7 minutes or whatever it takes) -- there is no right answer as it somewhat depends on relative humidity in you cleaning area. The bottom line is you don't want any moisture on the record when you put it in its sleeve or when you play it.

For the most part I use air drying for 4-5 records at a time within the context of a Heppa filter at some distance. But air drying is not part of the Degritter protocol which includes a fan -- partly because Degritter offers no place outside their machine's moist environment to place the record for drying and it meana to be.a one-stop automated design.

If your machine supports it, I suggest a clean water rinse before drying.

Thanks. I don’t see any moisture on the record after the five minute drying cycle but how can I tell? Touch it with a paper towel?

The DeGritter supports the use of a second tank for rinsing. The real issue is figuring out a way to not tip over either tank when doing the swap, lol.

The machine is in my living room, next to my record storage rack and not in the basement, so it’s important I don’t spill water.

The tank is narrow and high so it’s not particularly stable. Also, the top is not attached to the tank so it is easy to knock the top off and spill water.

Besides, using a second tank will ruin the convenience of the machine.

 

[bonzo75]

Not sure I follow you: I do not need any details on Kirmuss as I own it.

he compares a lot of them as gets them for review.

 

[abeidrov]

I mean no offense to you as an owner. My opinion of Kirmuss is akin to the sound made by a duck. The answer to your question is yes, and likely a better result -- cannot say a complete cycle with rinse in 5 minutes but under 10.



I know you like MF and you're trying to help. However if you have knowlege and look at his coverage of modern LP cleaning systems you'll realize this is not his forte.

Tima, I respect your opinion very much, as you are obviously one of the top experts on ultrasonic cleaning. But I seem to get very good results after using Kirmuss. Is your opinion based on personal experience or some faults in Kirmuss design that you know of?

Thanks in advance,
Aziz

 

[abeidrov]

he compares a lot of them as gets them for review.

I doubt very much, that he would give me an unbiased opinion. There is always a risk, I can share his answer publicly and no reviewer Is willing to do that.

 

[tima]

Thanks. I don’t see any moisture on the record after the five minute drying cycle but how can I tell? Touch it with a paper towel?

The DeGritter supports the use of a second tank for rinsing. The real issue is figuring out a way to not tip over either tank when doing the swap, lol.

The machine is in my living room, next to my record storage rack and not in the basement, so it’s important I don’t spill water.

The tank is narrow and high so it’s not particularly stable. Also, the top is not attached to the tank so it is easy to knock the top off and spill water.

A paper towel or a lint free cloth. Or give it an extra minute if in doubt.

Yes ... tanks of water can be messy. I custom built a waterproof tray with a lip on it to hold my tanks and pumps. It was surprisingly easy to build a wood frame then tack a thick tarp to it with waterproof staples. I got the idea from dminches.

Look at the last photos in this post:

tima's DIY RCM

Tim: Not sure you noticed, but the motor slides up and down secured in-place with a knurled knob shown on Page 4 of 7 of the Viny Maid manual, it's the knob below the motor assembly. Now the Vinyl Maid manual says nothing about this in the setup but at the end Step 8 - Drying - Detach the...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[bonzo75]

I doubt very much, that he would give me an unbiased opinion. There is always a risk, I can share his answer publicly and no reviewer Is willing to do that.

lol why don’t you ask? Do you think on this forum you get unbiased opinions anymore

 

[Neil.Antin]

Hello, I wonder if anyone compared Degritter to Kirmuss with regard to the quality of cleaning. I have Kirmuss, but 40 minutes to one hour per record is very tiring. So, I am looking for a more convenient solution, and Degritter is the obvious first choice.
On the other hand, I am just curious, if you can achieve the same result with one Degritter 5 minutes cycle as with 5 to 8 Kirmuss 5 minutes cycles, which I normally do?

The DG vs Kirmuss are two entirely different cleaning processes.

Kirmuss is a manual-clean + UT process. The UT is 35-kHz. The 35-kHz gives big bubbles with high cavitation intensity.

DG by itself is purely UT. The UT is 120-kHz (with lots of power). The 120kHz gives smaller bubbles, and more of them, with lower cavitation intensity. Theoretically it is more efficient in removing smaller particles than what the 35-kHz can remove.

See the first post of the thread for the rules of UT - Ultrasonic Cavitation & Cleaning Explained | What's Best Audio and Video Forum. The Best High End Audio Forum on the planet! (whatsbestforum.com)

If you add an effective pre-clean step before the DG, then you should equal or exceed what the Kirmuss process yields. Ergo, many people will pre-clean their records with a vacuum-RCM which should take <5-min and then proceed to final clean with the DG. But always remember, that vacuum-RCM (other than the automated units) is nothing more than machine assisted manual cleaning; but its fast. The effectiveness of vacuum-RCM is dependent on the chemistry used, the brush used, and your technique; and for vacuum-RCM the rinse step is critical to the success of the process.

However, just note that the Kirmuss UT tank is not filtered and therefore for every record after the first, the record cleanliness is compromised by the bath getting dirtier. The DG is only a little bit better. If has a filter, but it is not very fine or very big; nowhere near what @tima uses for his wash UT tank (10" 0.2-micron absolute).

Final record cleanliness is not dependent on the machine, it depends on the total process used to clean the (edit) record.

Hope this is of some help.

 

[abeidrov]

The DG vs Kirmuss are two entirely different cleaning processes.

Kirmuss is a manual-clean + UT process. The UT is 35-kHz. The 35-kHz gives big bubbles with high cavitation intensity.

DG by itself is purely UT. The UT is 120-kHz (with lots of power). The 120kHz gives smaller bubbles, and more of them, with lower cavitation intensity. Theoretically it is more efficient in removing smaller particles than what the 35-kHz can remove.

See the first post of the thread for the rules of UT - Ultrasonic Cavitation & Cleaning Explained | What's Best Audio and Video Forum. The Best High End Audio Forum on the planet! (whatsbestforum.com)

If you add an effective pre-clean step before the DG, then you should equal or exceed what the Kirmuss process yields. Ergo, many people will pre-clean their records with a vacuum-RCM which should take <5-min and then proceed to final clean with the DG. But always remember, that vacuum-RCM (other than the automated units) is nothing more than machine assisted manual cleaning; but its fast. The effectiveness of vacuum-RCM is dependent on the chemistry used, the brush used, and your technique; and for vacuum-RCM the rinse step is critical to the success of the process.

However, just note that the Kirmuss UT tank is not filtered and therefore for every record after the first, the record cleanliness is compromised by the bath getting dirtier. The DG is only a little bit better. If has a filter, but it is not very fine or very big; nowhere near what @tima uses for his wash UT tank (10" 0.2-micron absolute).

Final record cleanliness is not dependent on the machine, it depends on the total process used to clean the (edit) record.

Hope this is of some help.

Thanks very much, your explanation certainly helps.
If I have both Kirmuss and Degritter, can I use Kirmuss for a pre-clean step? And what would be the best way to do it: one 5 minute cycle with applying his surfactant to the record? Shall I also add 40ml of 70% IPA to the tank?