In that case yes because its not acoustic it's electric. Remember I said it's difficult when it's not acoustic and yes there is always the possibility that mastering changes things. You have to accept that whatever changes they are were intentional. I would not necessarily use this as a way to evaluate speakers on its own. I would look to find live acoustic recordings. You are really in the weeds here. This is just me. You be you. I'm happy with my choices but I keep an open mind as I am always interested in learning. You?
dCS Varese short review
- Thread starter craigr
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when using analog as a reference for digital, the tape is the source for both. and i have thousands of examples with both. with one or two agree many results are possible. but doing many examples it's easy to determine dac ranking as to closest to the analog source.
colorations immerge if there. when i compared the Lampi GG 1.5 to my Aqua Formula and then the MSB Select II it was easy to hear the colorations which while pleasing were a sameness over the music. so we have a fork in the road as to personal preference for that coloration or more like the analog. when i compared the MSB to the Wadax there were digital nasties/artifacts with the MSB that were just music on the Wadax. having the analog helps to expose what is what.
IMO a reference component is just a component that many people know well and can be used to carry comparisons. It has a statistical meaning - if you choose a component that no one knows, the validity of the reference is zero.
Surely we expect that a reference component has high performance. Most of the time our reference components are those in our system.
However, in a general way we have reference systems - in my case the best solid and significant experience I had with my reference recordings.
Equating reference with our WBF "best" is meaningless ...
i have posted many times that (1) i listen to 70% digital, (2) lots of classical orchestral and string quartets and all sorts of different classical including early music. one of my favorite orchestral is the Jordi Savall Beethoven Symphony cycle. it's wonderful.
so even though i like to use analog as a reference, most of my dac compare media is digitally sourced as that is what i mainly listen to, and my reason for seeking top digital.
that's a good one. i'm RV traveling right now so don't have access to my Roon history or some of my playlists. i have lots of Savall high rez files, and listen to them often. my recent acquisition of the 3000 pressing classical collection included many early music pressings which would challenge that Savall recording. when i return home i will find a few and post them.
my opinion is that if we are crossing swords to determine whether i could find a pressing to meet or surpass that recording in the attributes you describe i think it's likely, but not certain. i greatly respect those Savall recordings. but also know what and where analog can separate itself.
we will see and i accept the challenge.
The same. Decades ago I often used Genesis "Foxtrot" as an evaluation recording - today I recognize that my appraisal focused excessively on particular aspects that I have listened sounding better in other systems - I had no personnel reference on such recording, except my love for it. .
Why do you see my question as a challenge? My idea is that we need nominating particular recordings to address such points, not exposing our biographies and audiophile CV every time-
BTW, the latest Savall recordings and recording technique have little to do with his old early recordings. My point is just avoiding comparing apples with oranges ...
only in the mildest way. you did say "can you find an analog recording that has.......?" it's a sort of a challenge. i did not read more into it than you intended, sorry if my words indicated more.
we always refer in some ways to the bigger picture. i'm not alone doing that. i thought maybe my focus on the analog reference issue, somehow made others think i don't also mainly use the digital recordings in comparing dacs. so i felt i needed to make that point.
i will investigate that.
I have asked myself why Wilson Audio, a longtime owner of the dCS Vivaldi, was not upgrading to the Varese - a good friend just sent me this link
https://www.monoandstereo.com/wilson-audio-reference-system-welcomes-dcs-varese-music-system/
The Varese joins the Studer A80 and TechDas AF1+ , my preferred analog sources!
https://www.monoandstereo.com/wilson-audio-reference-system-welcomes-dcs-varese-music-system/
The Varese joins the Studer A80 and TechDas AF1+ , my preferred analog sources!
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IMO it is by far the the more thought and better written in depth review of the dCS Varese. If I had not listened to Varese I would surely call it hyperbolic, after a few months with it I call it realistic. I quote
"The abundance of micro-detail that the Varèse extracts from a recording means that the smallest quaver in a legato passage is immediately audible, endowing it with a sense of lifelike realism that it did not possess with the Vivaldi." (end of quote)
Considering that IMO previously the Vivaldi was the champion of micro detail, it is a really an achievement. But is true.
Is this rig as sensitive to incoming data as other top end streaming, requiring infinity switches, routers, LPSUs, filters, fibre v ethernet etc?
Hello and good day to all of you. Unfortunately, this thread was closed so we could take the time to go through each and every post within the last couple of pages and scrub some of the comments that were unbecoming of this forum. Some warnings to individual members were sent out and a rather large chunk of posts had to be removed.
There is no conspiracy theory that needs to be put out there, as incorrectly suggested in another post. There is no teaming up to protect anyone or any manufacturer. This was simply a case of having to clean up the thread. These things sometimes take a large chunk of our time to do. That is the ONLY reason this thread was closed. It will now reopen, but we would like to remind all of our members that our goal is to have a friendly place where everyone shares ideas and information without the level of bickering and angst that other forums tend to create.
The last couple of pages did not meet this goal. At all.
The recent postings that have been removed in this thread is a classic example of what this kid above is talking about. We are better than this. We are all adults here. We should all be leading by example.
That said, we would like to point out that many folks like certain brands. Many brands have a following. We would like you to understand that an opinion will not be censored, that we respect everyone's opinion when it comes to audio. Our hobby would be very boring if everyone held the same opinion. There does, however, come a point to where certain members will continually trash members, as well as manufacturers. Stating an opinion once in a thread, maybe twice in another thread is one thing. Continually saying the same statement over and over in different ways is no longer an opinion. That is knowingly abusive. Here is a friendly TOS reminder...
Please do not use this forum to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, racist, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violates any law. We reserve the right to delete any message that in our sole opinion falls in these categories and serve up administrative action to any member because of them.
If you see a post that you feel is out of line, abusive or you start to see a pattern, please DO NOT respond. Report the post and state your case as to why you made the report. The moderating team here at the WBF will deal with it. Now, we would like to reopen this thread again.
Our biggest message that we would like to remind you of is that we would like these type of threads to STAY ON TOPIC! Let's please get this thread back on topic and stay there. Thank you.
There is no conspiracy theory that needs to be put out there, as incorrectly suggested in another post. There is no teaming up to protect anyone or any manufacturer. This was simply a case of having to clean up the thread. These things sometimes take a large chunk of our time to do. That is the ONLY reason this thread was closed. It will now reopen, but we would like to remind all of our members that our goal is to have a friendly place where everyone shares ideas and information without the level of bickering and angst that other forums tend to create.
The last couple of pages did not meet this goal. At all.
The recent postings that have been removed in this thread is a classic example of what this kid above is talking about. We are better than this. We are all adults here. We should all be leading by example.
That said, we would like to point out that many folks like certain brands. Many brands have a following. We would like you to understand that an opinion will not be censored, that we respect everyone's opinion when it comes to audio. Our hobby would be very boring if everyone held the same opinion. There does, however, come a point to where certain members will continually trash members, as well as manufacturers. Stating an opinion once in a thread, maybe twice in another thread is one thing. Continually saying the same statement over and over in different ways is no longer an opinion. That is knowingly abusive. Here is a friendly TOS reminder...
Please do not use this forum to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, racist, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violates any law. We reserve the right to delete any message that in our sole opinion falls in these categories and serve up administrative action to any member because of them.
If you see a post that you feel is out of line, abusive or you start to see a pattern, please DO NOT respond. Report the post and state your case as to why you made the report. The moderating team here at the WBF will deal with it. Now, we would like to reopen this thread again.
Our biggest message that we would like to remind you of is that we would like these type of threads to STAY ON TOPIC! Let's please get this thread back on topic and stay there. Thank you.
I heard the Varese at JS Audio's open house event last year and it sounded very, very good. Probably the best digital I've ever heard. But that comes with some caveats:
* Peter McGrath was playing his own personal recordings, which you could argue are atypical source material. Probably among the best of the best.
* It was the Varese in a vacuum, there were no comparisons to the Vivaldi (or any other digital product) to provide some measure of the scale of the delta.
* I've never spent meaningful time with any of its competitors.
* Highly resolving systems push my buttons so I am pre-disposed to like the its high level of detail it can provide (if given suitable data to play).
Many Varese events with dCS have included a comparison with the Vivaldi. Our local dealer Evolution did that demo on several tracks. As much as it pains me, as I aspire to a Vivaldi upgrade, the Varese is significantly much better. As it should be for the price and state of the art engineering.
Please regard this as a completely transparent and agenda-less question:
I've never heard a Varese and will certainly never be in a position to own one. But I'd like to hear some opinions regarding the level of system one would need to have for the Varese to deliver the type of "improvement" that so many have experienced.
For example, my modest system would be priced at about $65k or so if all components were new. If I replaced - just hypothetically - my Denafrips Terminator with a Varese, but kept my Modwright amp, Von Schweikert speakers, and Pachanko/HiFi Rose server and transport as-is, do you think I'd still note a substantive gain in the "gestalt" listening experience? Or would a thoroughbred like the Varese require similarly-elevated partners in order to reveal not its potential, but its ability to deliver the kind of clear, impressive, and positive difference that many have regarded as a paradigm shift.
One final clarification: I've heard other higher-end DACS in my system (Tambaqui, Rossini, Poseidon), and while I've clearly heard differences, none of them caused me to say "this changes everything." The impression I've received from many who've heard Varese is that it does "change everything..."
Thanks!
I've never heard a Varese and will certainly never be in a position to own one. But I'd like to hear some opinions regarding the level of system one would need to have for the Varese to deliver the type of "improvement" that so many have experienced.
For example, my modest system would be priced at about $65k or so if all components were new. If I replaced - just hypothetically - my Denafrips Terminator with a Varese, but kept my Modwright amp, Von Schweikert speakers, and Pachanko/HiFi Rose server and transport as-is, do you think I'd still note a substantive gain in the "gestalt" listening experience? Or would a thoroughbred like the Varese require similarly-elevated partners in order to reveal not its potential, but its ability to deliver the kind of clear, impressive, and positive difference that many have regarded as a paradigm shift.
One final clarification: I've heard other higher-end DACS in my system (Tambaqui, Rossini, Poseidon), and while I've clearly heard differences, none of them caused me to say "this changes everything." The impression I've received from many who've heard Varese is that it does "change everything..."
Thanks!
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Doesn't every individual have their own definition of what constitutes a paradigm shift?
I had a chance to spend some time with the Varese system streaming yesterday afternoon, August 21, 2025, and can say that this is absolutely the best digital streaming I have ever heard. I know that the cost is significant and it is something I cannot justify to spend at this time, but man oh man, the sound was just so beautiful and so beyond compare that I have to start thinking about how I could possibly swing this set up, with their transport of course.
At its price, I was hoping it could match good vinyl. I heard and compared, whilst close, there is still a gap... But excellent nonetheless.
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