CD Ripper: Old, New, Blu, Or Mix Of Old And New

rando

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Sep 22, 2019
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Driving this question is noticing a year late Pioneer's release of BDR-S12J-X external Blu-ray Disc Writer. I'm seeing at least a few highly developed aftermarket options built around this. Importing from Asia is something I expect would be tedious at the moment. Typically the less time new and highly sought after, not to mention delicate, electronics spend in transit incurring extra handling the better. I've yet to explore CD ripping (or CD layer of SACD) with Blue lasers (roughly 405nm as opposed to 780nm developed for CD). The change is not technically impressive for engaging reconstructions of files stored on compact discs. Few doubts exist new and cutting edge is the way to go using modern computers with Blu-Ray drives though. Probably removing all but the one option being actively built around.

On the other end lies all that came before and has yet to suffer terminal failure or parts/engineering challenges exceeding mortal means. Better chance than not anyone answering here could flush out any list with their own mods and model numbers. There was a short period where Accurate Stream and C2 pointers could be found without firmware clogging accessory programs, proprietary or otherwise, I'm focused on. I'm careful enough to leave the option for New open to any models still in production that are worthwhile. As is the case with all modern hardware, software running it has a large part in how it performs. "Developer Options" can be a magical playground absent legal requirements and end user blandness. In this and addition of modern PSU/isolation the mix of old and new starts to sound more appealing than stock performance.

Would be very curious to hear any thoughts that help settle the matter. Particularly from anyone with experience using this new Pioneer optical drive. Servers edging past direct playback of discs has been sneaking up for a while. I'd like to only undergo the arduous task of ripping large chunks of my library once this decade in preparation of wherever beyond mere hyperbole this goes.
 

Mikem53

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Oct 1, 2020
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Good morning.. My response here is pre coffee, so please forgive my simplistic response or if I miss your basic point..
A bit perfect copy is possible by using a secure rip. The OS will ensure the bit perfect copy by comparing CRC and using checksums , rereading the disc until a bit perfect copy has been transferred to disk Or a new medium. That’s why some say their ripped copies sound better than the CD playback.
Im using a Toshiba usb portable CD/dvd writer to rip my CD’s to an SSD. I prefer the sound to my Cary SACD 306 player. I’m not sure newer optics or lenses are going to do any better when ripping. During playback maybe, as there may not be any error correcting, but during a rip, the OS will ensure a perfect copy is created.
 

rando

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Sep 22, 2019
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Im using a Toshiba usb portable CD/dvd writer to rip my CD’s to an SSD.

Without getting too far into the weeds here. Ripping computer's OS (hint: heavily modified), clean power without ground loops etc., optical drive vibration isolation, clocking, data connection, ... everything matters. Especially when What's Best is that last remaining percentage of possible improvement continually aspired towards.

Looking at your lightweight portable off the shelf USB optical drive in comparison to a good solid modern transport (in the first stages of playback a computer that rips part or all of a track into RAM). It should be openly apparent how broadly they differ in construction and attention towards minimizing as many detracting elements (including multiple lasers and associated elements for different disc types) as manufacturer felt created the best combination they were capable of (at that price point!). Your Toshiba may actually be the result of more advanced technology and expensive development. It isn't, in my opinion, likely to result in a better sounding reconstruction of the file being read. Mass loading is nonexistent in a few ounce consumer device doing lots of far from ideal clever things internally (device firmware) before feeding the information along "bit perfect." ;)

For the sake of conversation, here is the bare external Pioneer USB Blu-Ray writer followed by one example of adding a second brand name and larger numbers to the price tag. Note the design criteria including a high level of dust resistance (a few motes on something sensitive as a laser sends the mathematical fibbing functionality into overdrive) and audio specific functions directed at the most prevalent format, compact discs. You may wish to view the Pioneer Japan site using an app that interprets text in photographs as well as printed descriptions.

Pioneer BDR-S12J-X

BDR-S12J-X supports high-definition 4K content "Ultra HD Blu-ray" playback. * 1 . In addition, Pioneer's BD drive has traditionally provided functions for enjoying music on a PC, such as the "Pure Read" function that faithfully reads audio CD data and the "Real Time Pure Read" function that suppresses the frequency of data interpolation. It is installed. In addition to these functions, the "audio CD check function" that displays the playback quality of the audio CD played on this unit in four stages, and in the case of low quality, displays the countermeasures such as changing the settings of this unit. It is installed and is suitable for applications such as CD ripping and music playback. In addition, the disc tray is painted with the same paint used for high-end audio equipment to improve vibration isolation performance, and the interior and exterior of the housing are specially painted to improve heat dissipation, resulting in high quietness. Achieves sex and reliability.





Ediscreation Ultra Silent Ripper (base model without upgraded Caps etc.)

It is optimized LPS, OCXO clock, UPOCC cable, Pioneer S12J-X Bluray Machine, Low Vibration housing and Audio ground together.


 
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Mikem53

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Oct 1, 2020
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We are talking about moving a “file” from one medium to another. The file gets there perfectly intact via the OS and it’s redundancy checks, file sums, etc. So if you compare the files on either medium after being copied they will be exactly the same Regardless of how much the lens/laser cost to get it there.
Some CD players, especially older units just stream data wo checking for error bits or check sums..
Those will matter during playback as errors can occur and bits get lost, etc affecting the SQ.
 
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rando

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Sep 22, 2019
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We are talking about moving a “file” from one medium to another. The file gets there perfectly intact via the OS and it’s redundancy checks, file sums, etc. So if you compare the files on either medium after being copied they will be exactly the same Regardless of how much the lens/laser cost to get it there.

I'll play along, once.

So if I and another are asked to pick up the same armload of sticks and set them down in another location.

a)Do you mean to infer both piles will be identical in all realistic characteristics so long as no sticks are broken?
b)Do you mean to infer separating them afterwards in an exact order to verify their existence couldn't be impacted by careful stacking and much forethought as to arrangement in said order?


The gotcha here is allowing use of almost any optical drive made for a number of years going back without upsetting people who might confuse the event they have set in motion with stringent lab quality scientific protocols being upheld that result in a highly accurate determination being gathered in their unsecured environment through the magic of technology. When what is in fact occurring is a highly repeatable level of acceptable accuracy should all the technical standards and protocols agreed upon by manufacturers be met to a high enough degree using very resilient and safe tolerances.

Thank you for offering your thoughts on the larger subject of copying digital data off CD. I'd like to defer towards allowing those having personal experience with the 'newer might be better' Pioneer drive or other more compelling optical drives to express their thoughts.
 

kennyb123

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Nov 30, 2012
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Kirkland, WA
I'll play along, once.

So if I and another are asked to pick up the same armload of sticks and set them down in another location.

a)Do you mean to infer both piles will be identical in all realistic characteristics so long as no sticks are broken?
b)Do you mean to infer separating them afterwards in an exact order to verify their existence couldn't be impacted by careful stacking and much forethought as to arrangement in said order?

This is one of the great mysteries of our time. Some would like to think they have a perfect understanding of such things but I don’t share their hubris. I really liked your response that I quoted above.

I had no idea about these new rippers based on the drive you mentioned here. I truly hope they don’t make a difference as I don’t want to have to re-rip ever again. But I’ll be keeping an open mind as I follow this thread.
 
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rando

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Sep 22, 2019
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Plextor SCSI drives circa 2000 were considered quite good, even if many felt speed played a large part in that assessment. The field broadened a bit by 2010 now that a few good technologies mentioned above were widely in use. In the current decade this Pioneer was the first BD drive I've found interesting.

Digital continues to see changes that may or may not be advancements in their current form? Potential for re-ripping recent and cherished discs once a decade doesn't strike me as overly burdensome given the nature of storage mediums involved.
 

kennyb123

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Nov 30, 2012
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I had some of those Plextor drives at one point. Both failed, which wasn’t surprising as I grabbed them from a computer recycle store. The stats that dbPoweramp produces lead me to believe that the main difference was the error percent. These might rip CDs others drives couldn’t. That might have been true.

I don’t know what matters beyond doing a perfect rip per the check dbPoweramp does, so I decided not to sweat the small stuff any further. The difference may be there but it’s really below the threshold I care to worry about.
 
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Mikem53

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Oct 1, 2020
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I'll play along, once.

So if I and another are asked to pick up the same armload of sticks and set them down in another location.

a)Do you mean to infer both piles will be identical in all realistic characteristics so long as no sticks are broken?
b)Do you mean to infer separating them afterwards in an exact order to verify their existence couldn't be impacted by careful stacking and much forethought as to arrangement in said order?
With all due respect, we are talking about 1's and 0's being manipulated by computers with total accuracy and the ability to check itself to ensure that the data is indeed intact. Not people carrying sticks or laying down sticks.
In your world of digital, people would get different results with the same data, sorry.. it doesn't work that way.
 

rando

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Sep 22, 2019
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In your world of digital, people would get different results with the same data, sorry.. it doesn't work that way.
I'll play along, once.

Accept I have no interest in effecting a shocking change to the direction pointed at in title I chose. Namely replacing aging hardware with a more sophisticated level of accuracy if it exists.
 

rando

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Sep 22, 2019
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I don’t know what matters beyond doing a perfect rip per the check dbPoweramp does, so I decided not to sweat the small stuff any further. The difference may be there but it’s really below the threshold I care to worry about.

Not sure what you did the last year plus of homebound social inactivity, but I've discovered plenty of time for just exactly this type of pursuit. It not being a major concern to many lets it be easily overlooked. Allowing a small window to open on the chance performance is slipping behind.
 

Magnuska

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Nov 21, 2020
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I bought this Pioneer standard ripper without any mods direct from Adark in HK a month ago. I didn`t know how much OR if any SQ improvements could be had at all with these mods so I went for the standard version just because that seemed better than normal external plastic computer drives. Its working very good in doing what it is supposed to. The sturdy construction seems to improve reading but if it helps SQ I can`t say. Perhaps I should have choosen the modded version to get that too??? Anyway I have now a reliable ripper that seems very good.

BUT to the OP. It could be very interesting to hear if it really is helpful in getting better SQ rips as well.
So buy it!:)

I use it with USB directly to my Antipodes S40 ripping USB input.

Pioneer X12J-UHD

 
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kennyb123

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With all due respect, we are talking about 1's and 0's being manipulated by computers with total accuracy and the ability to check itself to ensure that the data is indeed intact. Not people carrying sticks or laying down sticks.
In your world of digital, people would get different results with the same data, sorry.. it doesn't work that way.
Do you really think that each and everyone of us hasn't heard this more times than we can remember?
 

Kingrex

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Feb 4, 2019
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Its funny how the 1 and 0 guys cant wrap their heads around digital. I had a well know member on computer audiophile send me a few rips. He said to listen, so I did. Same songs, but a little different sounding. One was ripped on a computer and the other on a purpose built ripper with modded power supplies. Both bit perfect. But they sure sounded different. I personally don't care about the engineering reasons behind it. I just tell people to be aware. For some reason the software and hardware affect the ability of playback equipment to read files that have been ripped from a CD. Bit perfect filed sound different. So use a good ripper and good software. .
 

rando

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Sep 22, 2019
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I bought this Pioneer standard ripper without any mods direct from Adark in HK a month ago. I didn`t know how much OR if any SQ improvements could be had at all with these mods so I went for the standard version just because that seemed better than normal external plastic computer drives. Its working very good in doing what it is supposed to. The sturdy construction seems to improve reading but if it helps SQ I can`t say. Perhaps I should have choosen the modded version to get that too??? Anyway I have now a reliable ripper that seems very good.

Thank you for offering a few hands on thoughts. Adark was the second shop I knew of reselling that Pioneer model with their personal additions. Either of them would take some convincing to purchase on the basis of actual improvements over the retail drive. Qualities sure to show through one way or the other during intensive use ripping a large library. The mitigation of performance falling off in this scenario was I felt an obvious end. Awareness of it in current device implicit. In "my digital world" electronics are hardly On/Off devices with unvaried performance over time.

BUT to the OP. It could be very interesting to hear if it really is helpful in getting better SQ rips as well.
So buy it!:)

I use it with USB directly to my Antipodes S40 ripping USB input.

I have no problem exposing realistic concerns about fine tuning usage and recognizing when behaviors are changing for the worse. Far from a beige device, the designers personality imprinted on what appears to be a pro-sumer optical drive caught my attention.

When I can send a letter that arrives in the same month a purchase is very likely.
 

Magnuska

Member
Nov 21, 2020
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Thank you for offering a few hands on thoughts. Adark was the second shop I knew of reselling that Pioneer model with their personal additions. Either of them would take some convincing to purchase on the basis of actual improvements over the retail drive. Qualities sure to show through one way or the other during intensive use ripping a large library. The mitigation of performance falling off in this scenario was I felt an obvious end. Awareness of it in current device implicit. In "my digital world" electronics are hardly On/Off devices with unvaried performance over time.



I have no problem exposing realistic concerns about fine tuning usage and recognizing when behaviors are changing for the worse. Far from a beige device, the designers personality imprinted on what appears to be a pro-sumer optical drive caught my attention.

When I can send a letter that arrives in the same month a purchase is very likely.
It was delivered to me in Sweden within 2 weeks. But that was prior to the Suez incident:)
 
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kennyb123

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Nov 30, 2012
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Obviously not...
Bit perfection has been solved. Like you've said over and over... a lot of systems would crash if attaining bit perfection wasn't possible.

But bit perfection isn't what engineers are focusing on in pursuit of improving digital sound. There are other factors at play .. like noise and timing. These are difficult problems to solve which is why there are still wide variations in digital reproduction. It doesn't advance anyone's understanding to keep repeating the 1s and 0s canard over and over again when no one is disputing that bit perfection has been solved.

It's as if we are having a conversation about the best tasing bottled water and you insert yourself to remind everyone that the water molecule has two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom. That's true of every kind of bottled water but it's irrelevant as to why they still taste different.
 
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kennyb123

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Nov 30, 2012
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Ironic that I use the taste of water as a metaphor and I come across this article. What should be plainly evident is that our senses are extremely sensitive. But this eludes members of the church of 0s and 1s because they just can’t see how the fact that our ears are involved means we need to look at the problems differently.

 

timztunz

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Apr 23, 2018
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Its funny how the 1 and 0 guys cant wrap their heads around digital. I had a well know member on computer audiophile send me a few rips. He said to listen, so I did. Same songs, but a little different sounding. One was ripped on a computer and the other on a purpose built ripper with modded power supplies. Both bit perfect. But they sure sounded different. I personally don't care about the engineering reasons behind it. I just tell people to be aware. For some reason the software and hardware affect the ability of playback equipment to read files that have been ripped from a CD. Bit perfect filed sound different. So use a good ripper and good software. .
It might also give some insight into why some say rips sound better than the CD they came from and others say the opposite. I'm just glad I only use digital for convenience and if I want critical listening I go back to analog, because I'm not ripping all of my discs again.
 

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