I know what you meant..The hobby at large. Buyers need to align their purchases with dealers who understand not only the products they sell but also it's often a huge chunk of change for a client to spend (at any level), even if the margins are slim for the dealer.
Bob,
However we consciously choose the second route and IMHO discussion on such approach only is possible if we respect other people choices. Are you going to apply your intransigent rules to all brands sold by Rhapsody Audio? maybe something like $500K discount !!! For looking things up in a thesaurus once or twice a year?!? I guess I will have to work my tail off to get my favorite and dream systems)… And , of course, guys who have a rule in their head that gear must measure great - before they can enjoy the sound , would have a different opinion altogether. … so ignore economics at your own peril … remember IGNORE is your friend, but it will not change any of the economics and social realities above.
I am surprised that DCS hs not sourced or developed a new transport, considering that the Vivaldi is over 10 years old at this stage. The competition was not sleeping and CH precision recently developed a new transport, as did Wadax, Esoteric, T+A and others. I hope they introduce Dvorak soon as the rumors have been flying around since early last year and it is hardly a secret at this point.
I heard wilson has just opened a dealership in kabul .
Microstrip,
I respectfully disagree with you. To be honest, I just got a good belly laugh when I read your post. But I also sense some anger in your comments. Obviously, we view and evaluate the audio hobby from completely different frames, and enjoy different audio experiences.
I gave you my definition of luxury, vs. what humans need to survive. If Guys sitting in a dedicated 20 x 30 foot room , listening to several top systems costing hundreds of thousands of dollars, sipping $160 bottle of cognac and tequila while smoking weed famous rappers will kill for , I’m told, with several 6 figure dacs and half a dozen turntables, is not a luxury, I’m not sure what is.
And as I mentioned, aesthetic is elements have been incorporated into all types of products since the 50s, 60s, and 70s, and have come to high end audio as well. Even in your system (more below)!
And again, I’m not knocking that. Please re-read my post. This is not your typical definition of luxury . I believe that people want high end audio , not to show off in many cars, but because it makes their life more beautiful and more enjoyable. And it’s a great thing!
As to performance, high end audio is a subjective experience. I recently heard the newly hyped up Wilson model with dcs. And nothing personal, but I prefer listening to music in my car radio while driving at 85 mph, with 85 db of ambient noise. All I heard on that system was the “big soundstage”, “pinpoint imaging” , “depth “, “tight bass”, “clean sound”, "dynamics", vocalist in a booth in NYC, the drummer in a booth in Nashville, etc. It was not music. It was just sounds and noises. There was No human emotion conveyed. It was an electro-mechanical fake, and not real humans playing music created by real humans.
And that’s what people who are not audiophiles, including musicians, perceive also. Step away from audiophilia, and just ask an outsider to listen with you… I have listened to very high end systems with non- audiophile musicians and that is exactly their perspective…
But this mechanical sound is what old audiophiles have learned to like and consider as “high performance”. And this type of sound has the imprimatur of the audio elites. ( I can’t believe I just typed “ imprimatur” . Can I get 50 percent off an Avantgarde trios horn system I’ve been craving for using the the thesaurus, like that bombastic Wilson reviewer, “grandiloquent “ Jakob Heilbronn got for his Wilson wamm system and all the ancillaries ?
And many of those "experienced" guys sit in a small room, with 2-4 foot speakers, pretending the instruments played on 20-30 of the same recordings on their system sound like a real classical performance. But it’s a free society and very rich men in their late 50s, 60s, and 70s , locked in to a certain philosophy and preference, can do whatever they want…
Music is a $50 billion plus industry, yet high end audio is a tiny fraction of that. I know hundreds of millionaires who can easily afford this stuff and love music but don’t care for high end audio, maybe if this stuff sounded great, they would get it also. On the other hand, a friend whose preferences are very similar to mine, recently heard the same Alsyvox that Bobvin has, with a SET and he said he had chills up and down the spine for the whole time he listened to it. I’m sure I’d feel exactly the same. Yet guys who are used to the audiophile- accepted / approved sound will say it’s a euphonic coloration. But so is vinyl , to many of those guys.
No one’s preferred sonic signature/ coloration, even if approved by the elite, is better than another man’s coloration… togas were preferred by the elites a while back in human history, but we prefer blue jeans now …One man’s high performance is another man’s drek…. And Just great marketing
So again, our society is flush with cash. If high end audio were a better experience , more people would grin and immediately arouse emotional reactions upon hearing music on these Uber expensive systems. They would flock to this hobby like kids to a park!
As to your bling comment, there’s a “bling” component to majority of gear, and aesthetics matter more and more. Not only superficial people are attracted to aesthetically beautiful gear. As I mentioned, other values such as “high performance” do not go away. Mobile phone can sparkle and work at the same time. Alsyvox speaker can look stunning and sound stunning - to those who like that type of sound.
(And smart business people should offer an option of plain or the aesthetic option for an extra charge. Not everyone is a technologically earnest but aesthetically clueless geek, and vice versa. The economic term for this is called price discrimination.)
No reason to assume something is worthless because it comes in a pretty package. But then again, “high performance” is judged completely personally based on taste and preference…so thus, to some pretty stuff lacks substance…
Why do you think your Wilson speakers have fancy car paint finish ? You didn’t notice your speakers have that? And how much money do think the consumer can save if the speaker came as plain as Mao-like drab, gray suit? (That’s part of the genius of Wilson marketing!)
And how much are the fancy dcs face plates on your Dac and other dcs boxes ? One face plate probably costs more than the whole system that measurement guys have . And how much do 4 dcs plates cost? And what about Mike L’s dartZeel? (Mike L. is the respected audiophile who will try to get wadax across the chasm to the more mainstream market of dcs and msb owners… sure anyone can get lucky after making a wrong decision, but personally, I think the dac designer should help evangelize his brand like Steve Jobs did, but seems like he would rather work behind his desk and chance the opportunity pass by with dcs not yet ready with their new platform , but I don’t want to digress.) Why is dartZeel in beautiful in orange (or is it mustard yellow) with red edges? It’s not for aesthetic pleasure? It’s only for function ? Seriously?
Economics is a hidden order that exists whether or not we choose to notice ....
Furthermore, the audiophile culture you support for has failed! Its an illiberal culture, with guys thinking because they heard something, and like something, and imagine it as “real”, everyone else should love it also. If they don’t, they are an idiot, or worse! Imagine if these guys had baseball bats or guns they could take to those they disagree with… we see this type of stuff on this site frequently, and we have already seen fights between “experts” at audio shows, but I wouldn’t be surprised if things get kicked up a notch at future events ( no pun intended) …
If the audiophile culture were real life, life would nasty , brutish, and short.
I’m sure the Taliban is proud of what the audiophiles have accomplished.
But let’s put the disgusting Audiophile culture else aside and judge things by the results: Thanks to the audiophile culture you seem to admire, the industry is near death. I sincerely feel bad for some of the dealers here, pushing new stuff stuff, and dividing the ever dwindling market, getting the shrinking group of customers to switch to their more obscure , less proven, and less culturally accepted products … good luck in a culture that allows a very specific sensory experience of the accepted audiophile taste, override the rational….
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