Bass Tightening

[Ethan Winer]

Ethan told from the begining bass traps but, he never said what type.

You want bass traps that are acceptable with your family as far as size and appearance.

When someone has a dedicated room and can do whatever they want with no WAF concerns, the best approach is lot of large thick traps. There are many models shown on my company's web site:

http://www.realtraps.com/products.htm

Some other companies also offer a range of sizes and styles (and prices).

--Ethan

 

[jcmusic]

Bob,
Thanks again brother...Hey what type xovers you got there Bob???

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<<<>>> Read => http://www.gearslutz.com/board/bass...30371-corner-bass-traps-blocked-speakers.html

 

[jcmusic]

Ethan,
Thanks for the info and advice I will be looking around a bit to see what I think will work...

You want bass traps that are acceptable with your family as far as size and appearance.

When someone has a dedicated room and can do whatever they want with no WAF concerns, the best approach is lot of large thick traps. There are many models shown on my company's web site:

http://www.realtraps.com/products.htm

Some other companies also offer a range of sizes and styles (and prices).

--Ethan

 

[NorthStar]

Bob,
Thanks again brother...Hey what type xovers you got there Bob???

No no JC, this is not my PC room's system; this is only for suggestion of one of the bass traps positioning. ...Just for picture suggestion purpose.

With your speakers I would try first one 'cylinder' bass trap on each inside of your speakers (between the front window and each speaker).
Then on the outside of them; you're looking for tightness, trust your ears, by physical experimentation. ...Alternative to measurements, which in my book is as valid if not even more so.
And whatever sounds best (tightness), try adding up more trapping bass material for even further improvement; with that balance between room's aesthetics and sound quality. ...Your own taste (preference).

* My PC sound and video system is much more simple; my near-field monitors are way more smaller, and my pre-main amplifier is much more modest (30 watts per channel).
My screen is slightly larger (27"; thx to Mike), and I don't have any walls in the near vicinity; my design plan is fully open floor type, in the middle of a room. ...I got no reflections at all, just like if I was outside. One of these years I will post a picture ....
And I got no sub, yet. ...And everything is self contained; within my own table (3' by 4').
But my carpet is much nicer, and I got a 360 degree view of my surrounding; visually, and auditory. ...Freedom without restriction. :b

 

[jcmusic]

Oh ok I thought you were showing a pic of your setup, no problem. Yes that is what i was talking about doing in my room in the corners. From the ceiling down to the top of the speakers in the corners and between them above the window as well. I am also going to either hang a heavy rug in front of the window or fill it in with something...

No no JC, this is not my PC room's system; this is only for suggestion of one of the bass traps positioning. ...Just for picture suggestion purpose.

With your speakers I would try first one 'cylinder' bass trap on each inside of your speakers (between the front window and each speaker).
Then on the outside of them; your looking for tightness, trust your ears, by physical experimentation. ...Alternative to measurements, which in my book is as valid if not even more so.
And whatever sounds best (tightness), try adding up more trapping bass material for even further improvement; with that balance between room's aesthetics and sound quality. ...Your own taste (preference).

* My PC sound and video system is much more simple; my near-field monitors are way more smaller, and my pre-main amplifier is much more modest (30 watts per channel).
My screen is slightly larger (27"; thx to Mike), and I don't have any walls in the near vicinity; my design plan is fully open floor type, in the middle of a room. ...I got no reflections at all, just like if I was outside. One of these years I will post a picture ....
And I got no sub, yet. ...And everything is self contained; within my own table (3' by 4').
But my carpet is much nicer, and I got a 360 degree view of my surrounding; visually, and auditory. ...Freedom without restriction. :b

 

[jcmusic]

Ok guys this is what I have now please tell if I am doing this right, thanks.

Jay

 

[NorthStar]

Jay, some other members here are more experts than I in reading those above graphs.
Plus, there are several considerations regarding the way they were taken; that's where I feel at a lower level.

Nyal, Ethan, Bruce, Amir, and others are more capable than I; that's why I stayed invisible on this one.
I cannot afford to make a false interpretation on those measurement's readings.

 

[jcmusic]

Bob,
That's ok I found the info I have been misunderstanding for days now, i need to remeasure using the proper graph format...

 

[Ethan Winer]

i need to remeasure using the proper graph format...

No need to measure again. Just format the graphs to be more readable. Follow the guidelines shown here and use similar ranges:

Room Measuring Primer

--Ethan

 

[jcmusic]

Yes Ethan thanks I have the info I need but, I deleted the earlier measurements so I will remeasure no problem.

Jay

 

[theguesswho]

Hi Jay, I have a few suggestions for you, first off, please don't call me dude. My name is Wendell. Thankyou, with that out of the way.....

I looked at Ethans site which is chock full of info, easy to read, easy to navigate and I would highly recommend that you study his videos and written technical articles. If you need help understanding anything, perhaps I can help.

I determined what you need and here are my recommendations.

Four Mega traps above your speakers. Two on both sides if you have the height. As they are approx 2 feet tall, and looking at your photos, two should stack on top of your speakers.

Ten Mondo traps 2'x4' x 4". Two each on both side walls or wall to ceiling interface. One above and below the counter behind your seat. Two on the ceiling at the first reflection point. Two on the wall left and right of kitchen.

The Mega traps cost approx 260$ each for a total of $1,040

The Mondo traps cost approx $300 each for a total of $3,000

Total cost of traps $4,040 plus shipping.

If those recommended placements don't work for you due to aesthetic reasons I have a few other placement options.

I believe that is what would be required to affect your freq response and reduce the ringing and other undesirable effects of a room where you hear bass boom.

Hope this helps,

Wendell
PHP143

 

[theguesswho]

Hi Jay, Also regarding your freq response, while it would be true that this room treatment would help improve your freq response ultimately you would require equalization.

REW would help you in this endeavor. As it appears that you would require three equalizers for your three way system.

If you need help in interpreting the REW results. I will answer your questions to me, the best as I can.

Thanks again,
Wendell

 

[jcmusic]

Hi Jay, Also regarding your freq response, while it would be true that this room treatment would help improve your freq response ultimately you would require equalization.

REW would help you in this endeavor. As it appears that you would require three equalizers for your three way system.

If you need help in interpreting the REW results. I will answer your questions to me, the best as I can.

Thanks again,
Wendell

Ok Wendell,
Thanks for taking the time and trying to help me, much apprecited. Also thanks for your advice on the products let me show exactly where I am now.
The red graphs are flat and the blue graphs are after some eq adjustments, these are from today.

 

[theguesswho]

Hi Jay, Ok, I will help you. You seem quite interested to learn. I see you do have the REW fairly well figured out, and that you have a spl meter. Great, and I will show you how to use and read them properly.

I see that you have an eq in use now, which equalizer is it?

I am having over a hundred people at my house saturday so i will not be much help the next few days. And I don't want to get going till I can give you my undivided attention.

The last time I heard Klipschorns was back in the early 80's. I did like them and there is no reason why they should sound bad. But you will require room tx and eq, there are no other ways around it. If you are willing to do that your pleasure of music listening will increase greatly.
I see you have turntable , nice, it is what I use exclusively. Your system looks well set up in the rack also.

What are some of your reference albums? Just pick a few and let me know, so I know what your listening tastes are.

Wendell

 

[jcmusic]

Hi Wendell,
Thanks for wanting to help me learn about this part of the audio hobby. The EQ I am using is a Soundcraftsman from back in the 80's, it is all I have at the momet. I am looking to buy a newer parametric eq as soon as I can find what I like. As for music I listen to Blues, Jazz, Pop, and Rock. For vocals Dianna Krall works for overall tonal quality I like Dire Straits, John Lee Hooker for blues, and Jazz my go to is Sonny Rollins Sax Colossus!!! I listen to alot of vinyl and R2R tape.

 

[prerich]

Hi Wendell,
Thanks for wanting to help me learn about this part of the audio hobby. The EQ I am using is a Soundcraftsman from back in the 80's, it is all I have at the momet. I am looking to buy a newer parametric eq as soon as I can find what I like. As for music I listen to Blues, Jazz, Pop, and Rock. For vocals Dianna Krall works for overall tonal quality I like Dire Straits, John Lee Hooker for blues, and Jazz my go to is Sonny Rollins Sax Colossus!!! I listen to alot of vinyl and R2R tape.

I have a Behringer FBQ 2496 that I'm willing to let go of for $75.00 (plus $10 shipping Conus only). REW is compatible with the FBQ 2496, so if you are taking measurements with REW, just input the filters to the FBQ 2496. It's just sitting in my rack doing nothing (I do everything from my HTPC now) - you're more than welcome to it.

 

[jcmusic]

Thanks for the offer but, as I understand it the Behringer's are hard on power supply's and I would not want those issues...

 

[prerich]

Thanks for the offer but, as I understand it the Behringer's are hard on power supply's and I would not want those issues...

10-4 no probs If you have what I think you have - Soundcraftsman EQ from the 80's - its a graphic EQ. You will want to purchase a Parametric EQ, there are plenty of good choices available. Are your K-horns by any chance bi-amped?

 

[jcmusic]

Yes I know about the eq it is all i have right now, I have been looking at parametric eq's for days now. My K-horns are not bi-amped, I was gonna do it but; changed my mind and opted for a much better xover. My speakers are highly upgraded the only thing Klipsch are the 15" woofers and the cabinets. The horns are a wooden full tractrix 2" design the drivers are BMS 4592- mid 2" drivers and the tweeters are APT200.

10-4 no probs If you have what I think you have - Soundcraftsman EQ from the 80's - its a graphic EQ. You will want to purchase a Parametric EQ, there are plenty of good choices available. Are your K-horns by any chance bi-amped?

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Hey Jay,

I must say that from what I see with your measurements, your original inquest about wanting to tighten up your bass is perplexing. I don’t really see anything in your measurements that would account for the problem. The speakers don’t have much extension to begin with, and your waterfalls don’t show any excessive ringing (i.e. long low freq decay times), except for at 40 Hz, and response is down nearly 15 dB at that point.

That said, judging by the full-range response graph, a good parametric EQ would certainly be useful. Eliminating the wide depression between 600-4 kHz and toning down the peak at ~180 Hz would make a dramatic improvement. I recommend the vintage Yamaha YDP2006. This post contains excerpts from a review I never got around to finishing.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt