Improving my room acoustics

[dorch]

There seems to be increasing recognition that the listening room has a major effect on sound quality. I have been aware of overactive room frequency modes and a few other challenges which neither the limited physical treatments of my domestic room nor careful speaker positioning within domestic constraints have been able to solve.
I have always previously aimed to minimize processing in the reproduction of recorded music and have been unimpressed with attempts at room correction devices and software in the past.
I've recently introduced a Trinnov Nova into my system, placed between a network streamer and via AES digital to my TotalDac D1-Sublime reclocker and TotalDac monoblock DACs. In this configuration the Nova is operating completely in the digital domain, and I am not using its volume control or conversion capabilities. It’s making a major contribution, and I’d say the overall improvement is comparable to previous transformative steps like going to D1-Sublime DACs or adding IsoAcoustics support under my speakers. It’s tamed the bass resonances in my room which only has minimal acoustic treatment and impressively aligns phase differences. It really seems to let even more of the quality of the D1-Sublime come through.

Trinnov seems to have a great reputation in acoustic optimization in professional studios and has a range of products for domestic, professional and AV use, but in my stereo system the Nova seems the most appropriate for me.

I can see potential for Trinnov Nova in hi-fi show demonstrations and dealer setups as well as domestic environments where room acoustics are not ideal and physical treatments are often limited. The measurement and setup are surprisingly quick. Although it needs a PC or Mac for the configuration, in day-to-day use everything can be controlled through an Apple or Android app.
Worth a listen if you get a chance.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

There seems to be increasing recognition that the listening room has a major effect on sound quality. I have been aware of overactive room frequency modes and a few other challenges which neither the limited physical treatments of my domestic room nor careful speaker positioning within domestic constraints have been able to solve.
I have always previously aimed to minimize processing in the reproduction of recorded music and have been unimpressed with attempts at room correction devices and software in the past.
I've recently introduced a Trinnov Nova into my system, placed between a network streamer and via AES digital to my TotalDac D1-Sublime reclocker and TotalDac monoblock DACs. In this configuration the Nova is operating completely in the digital domain, and I am not using its volume control or conversion capabilities. It’s making a major contribution, and I’d say the overall improvement is comparable to previous transformative steps like going to D1-Sublime DACs or adding IsoAcoustics support under my speakers. It’s tamed the bass resonances in my room which only has minimal acoustic treatment and impressively aligns phase differences. It really seems to let even more of the quality of the D1-Sublime come through.

Trinnov seems to have a great reputation in acoustic optimization in professional studios and has a range of products for domestic, professional and AV use, but in my stereo system the Nova seems the most appropriate for me.

I can see potential for Trinnov Nova in hi-fi show demonstrations and dealer setups as well as domestic environments where room acoustics are not ideal and physical treatments are often limited. The measurement and setup are surprisingly quick. Although it needs a PC or Mac for the configuration, in day-to-day use everything can be controlled through an Apple or Android app.
Worth a listen if you get a chance.

There are a number of companies, including Trinnov and Storm Audio, that offer very effective, high quality, all-digital DSP. Also Lyngdorf although I have not tried them. I particularly like the versions that are based on Ravenna/AES67 for in/out if your system supports that.

 

[Kofi Baffour]

There seems to be increasing recognition that the listening room has a major effect on sound quality. I have been aware of overactive room frequency modes and a few other challenges which neither the limited physical treatments of my domestic room nor careful speaker positioning within domestic constraints have been able to solve.
I have always previously aimed to minimize processing in the reproduction of recorded music and have been unimpressed with attempts at room correction devices and software in the past.
I've recently introduced a Trinnov Nova into my system, placed between a network streamer and via AES digital to my TotalDac D1-Sublime reclocker and TotalDac monoblock DACs. In this configuration the Nova is operating completely in the digital domain, and I am not using its volume control or conversion capabilities. It’s making a major contribution, and I’d say the overall improvement is comparable to previous transformative steps like going to D1-Sublime DACs or adding IsoAcoustics support under my speakers. It’s tamed the bass resonances in my room which only has minimal acoustic treatment and impressively aligns phase differences. It really seems to let even more of the quality of the D1-Sublime come through.

Trinnov seems to have a great reputation in acoustic optimization in professional studios and has a range of products for domestic, professional and AV use, but in my stereo system the Nova seems the most appropriate for me.

I can see potential for Trinnov Nova in hi-fi show demonstrations and dealer setups as well as domestic environments where room acoustics are not ideal and physical treatments are often limited. The measurement and setup are surprisingly quick. Although it needs a PC or Mac for the configuration, in day-to-day use everything can be controlled through an Apple or Android app.
Worth a listen if you get a chance.

room treatment first is more important and much more effective than room DSP tools like Trinnov. I'd say those are additions not the main focus.
Main focus should be actual physics backed speaker placement and treatments in rooms with listening and measurements to back it. When that is done well, only then is it an icing on the cake to use DSP tools

For tangible example. This video shows what happens when a room is actually properly treated -

Yes, this is for a studio but the same ideas translate to listening spaces too.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

room treatment first is more important and much more effective than room DSP tools like Trinnov.

I agree, in principle, and one should always start there. The difficult issues for physical treatment are unfortunate predetermined room dimensions/construction and, also, the correlation of low frequency modes with their large volume treatments. DSP can be most useful for those situations.

 

[Kofi Baffour]

I agree, in principle, and one should always start there. The difficult issues for physical treatment are unfortunate predetermined room dimensions/construction and, also, the correlation of low frequency modes with their large volume treatments. DSP can be most useful for those situations.

Oh yes, I concur full blown treatment isn't attainable in living spaces yes, but some aesthetic but acoustically sound panels can be integrated and coupled with the DSP will work wonders. But if these aesthetic panels are a no go, then yes one is left with speaker placement iterations and DSP usage

But anyone with a dedicated space should surely dedicate time to get acoustic priming right and supplement with sound DSP tinkering. Wishing them the best though

 

[dorch]

Thanks for the YouTube Link. I do agree that room treatment is important, but family opinion provides a limit to what can be done in a living room if you don't have a dedicated listening room. I have treatment at first reflection points and some in corners, so things weren't too bad to start with, but Trinnov in particular stood out for me as it takes a different approach to many DSP solutions and is in use in many studios (Search YouTube for details).

In case anyone is interested here is my in-room acoustic response before Trinnov and after.

 

[marty]

The main question I would ask is why you think a flat room response at the listening position is the one that provides for the optimum listening experience? There are very few experienced listeners that would concur. My expectation is that your sound would be way too bright for my taste however I can appreciate that your preferences may differ. I am curious if you have tired to mimic the more commonly accepted Harman curve or the B&K curve that many seem to prefer? See figure 5 here:
https://www.bksv.com/media/doc/17-197.pdf

This topic is about as old as the forum itself. No need to reinvent the wheel here but some previous postings might be worth your interest

A more extended perspective can be found in a post I wrote many years ago.:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/dsp-one-persons-experience.520/

An updated follow-up is written 5 years later:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/the-jl-audio-cr-1-analog-vs-tact-digital-crossover.19361/

 

[dorch]

You are correct, and thanks for the links to your articles. I just posted to show what Trinnov could do compared to my own experiences a decade or so ago. From that starting point i have set target curves in Trinnov to achieve something closer to what you suggest. Key differences are some slight bass uplift to give some warmth for domestic listening, then i think we get into matters of personal preferences, it's not for professional mixing which seeks translation accuracy. For me it's a choice between a more relaxed top end and the clarity, detail and attack that's available there. What i am finding interesting is that I can easily adjust this without seeming to damage the signal quality, i even saw a recent YouTube video from Paul at PSAudio mentioning that he wasn't against this type of processing in the digital domain. Another fascinating area for audiophiles to play with and discuss ...

 

[Kofi Baffour]

Thanks for the YouTube Link. I do agree that room treatment is important, but family opinion provides a limit to what can be done in a living room if you don't have a dedicated listening room. I have treatment at first reflection points and some in corners, so things weren't too bad to start with, but Trinnov in particular stood out for me as it takes a different approach to many DSP solutions and is in use in many studios (Search YouTube for details).

In case anyone is interested here is my in-room acoustic response before Trinnov and after.
View attachment 154965

Does the speaker not have an inherent tilt at your listening position. If a speaker is flat in room and you don't sit at nearfield distances, they'd sound bright in room.

It's better to let your target follow the natural roll off delta of the speaker from bass to treble

Can you set a custom target curve. Just make it fit the general slope of your raw measurement so you limit the correction below Schroeder to affect room dominated frequencies as imo you'd like to leave in the speaker's tonal quirks as that is why you got the speaker in the first place unless the speaker is tonally incoherent. Then correction above the Schroeder is then useful.

What listening distance at you at and what speakers do you have?

 

[dorch]

Thanks for the comment. in my previous reply i mentioned what i have done with the target curves. I actually chose my speakers for their neutrality - they are ATC active studio monitors used by many professional studios for monitoring and mastering, personally i am seeking to avoid speaker tonal quirks wherever i can, so that the recording and production comes through. It does mean that poor recordings don't always sound good, but also that great recordings sound exceptional-

 

[Kofi Baffour]

Thanks for the comment. in my previous reply i mentioned what i have done with the target curves. I actually chose my speakers for their neutrality - they are ATC active studio monitors used by many professional studios for monitoring and mastering, personally i am seeking to avoid speaker tonal quirks wherever i can, so that the recording and production comes through. It does mean that poor recordings don't always sound good, but also that great recordings sound exceptional-

ATCs are anything but textbook neutral for the most part. Also flat in room for midfield or farfield distance listening and not nearfield is gonna sound bright.

Do not conflate anechoic flat with neutral with in room measurements.

A flat measuring speaker anechoic should have a semblance of a downwards tilt from bass to treble in a room when you're some feet away from it. So if you're sitting anywhere but nearfield and getting flat in room, that speaker is not neutral but bright. Hey, maybe you like that

See how the attached speaker has a flat on axis FR for anechoic but the measurement in room is downward tilted from bass to treble for two different rooms and see how their rooms affect the speaker tonality differently below 500Hz

Also what specific ATC?