Yes I think we get a lot more information from the time trial where every second can count.Yes, agree it's hard to get one's head around, one of the reasons I held off so long. Can't argue with the fact that I'm a lot faster, really substantially so, despite not being at peak fitness on the new bike, a clutch of KOMs to prove itIt's not just down to a slipperier frame, I'd guess the tire/wheel combo have a good deal to do with it.
Nino Schurter was one of the hold outs both in terms of 29r wheel size and then fatter tires on an XC race bike. Even he now rides Maxxis Aspen in a 29 x 2.4, they're fast. In MTB within their brand loyalty they can go with what they want, much more freedom than on the road. Remember a few years back he did a lot of testing ending up on the 2.4s as the fastest compromise, big surprise at the time as a 2.4 was getting into fatbike territory!
Any cyclists here?
- Thread starter Keith_W
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Wide tires = slightly more weight for the extra material. But, lower pressures mean riders arms, neck, and shoulders are less fatigued. Being hammered all day by high pressure rock hard tires drains valuable energy. the little bird body guys like Pogacar riding 32mm tires… I would love to learn the pressure he’s riding.
I think if roads were very, very smooth we'd see a lot of tires running 130psi or more, like they run them in velodromes.
I went to a Shimano seminar many years ago. They were introducing their fully built wheels at the time, and had done extensive testing in wind tunnels. What they learned is that the single biggest factor for aerodynamic drag is the tire width. Narrow tires slice through the wind better. The second biggest factor was the smoothness of the transition from tire to rim. After that came the depth and teardrop shape of the rim, which didn't have to be very deep to be optimal, and finally the number of spokes and whether they were bladed or round.
I went to a Shimano seminar many years ago. They were introducing their fully built wheels at the time, and had done extensive testing in wind tunnels. What they learned is that the single biggest factor for aerodynamic drag is the tire width. Narrow tires slice through the wind better. The second biggest factor was the smoothness of the transition from tire to rim. After that came the depth and teardrop shape of the rim, which didn't have to be very deep to be optimal, and finally the number of spokes and whether they were bladed or round.
Would love to see what they learned… as to just how much difference is the drag coefficient between a 23 and 28mm tire for instance, and then what that does, for example when you consider the overall drag of a cyclist mashing a couple big legs up and down regardless of how tucked he may be.
For the time trial I get optimizing every parameter , but in the peloton I’ll say the reduction of fatigue would be a more pronounced benefit. Clearly the trend to wider tires has some benefits.
The ENVE rims I had suggested 25mm tires for optimal aerodynamics. Was nice to ride even a little less pressure. Sadly my body doesn’t contort to the positions it once did -- my Cyfac is retired and I’m on my Jones bike now most of the time, with 48mm Rene Herse ultralights at ~25psi.
I've given up trying to ride fast. I only did a time trial once - put my seat post on backwards to move the saddle forward, pushed the bars way down, and borrowed some aero bars. The ride position was scary going around corners, but the difference was huge. The course I raced was 15 miles and it was gusty and cold with rain showers. For a guy that normally cruises with some effort under 20 mph, I was shocked that I maintained better than 25 mph with that setup. That was a funny little folding road bike too, with 20" wheels.
Such a great example of how when racing, comfort is exchanged for aerodynamics.
This is why the designer of the Jones bars maintains that if you are not racing you have no business riding dropped handlebars.
I was recently in a race of 2700 miles (bombed out at 600 miles due to a variety of mechanicals and health problems due to chronic dehydration). That race clearly shows how comfort vs aero really works.
All the talk I hear of among the local neo-pros is how to save watts. Name of the game
Multi Olympic team pursuit gold medalist Ed Clancy rode with us a couple of weeks back. He’s now involved among other things with the tech program at British cycling. We didn’t talk bikes (his was a mash up!) but one thing he did mention was there’s no such thing as a fast skin suit. Things have moved on so much that it’s now the correct design for the individual. It’ll all continue to evolve in ways we can’t currently imagine!
Multi Olympic team pursuit gold medalist Ed Clancy rode with us a couple of weeks back. He’s now involved among other things with the tech program at British cycling. We didn’t talk bikes (his was a mash up!) but one thing he did mention was there’s no such thing as a fast skin suit. Things have moved on so much that it’s now the correct design for the individual. It’ll all continue to evolve in ways we can’t currently imagine!
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I wonder how he would do on the Tour Divide? We had a few pro cyclists at the Grand Depart this year.
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for sure, time trialing @ 25 mph vs cruising @ 20 (20 mph for distance not easy for most recreational cyclists) is attributed to much more than just getting aero! 25mph for 15 miles — good on you, that’s work! (Though you were short of 40k typical t-trial distance.
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On that time trial my left leg lost circulation due to the bent over position and was pretty much a numb, lifeless thing by the end, flopping along only because it was clipped in to the pedal. When I tried to get off the bike I fell down and couldn't walk on it for a few minutes. Jones bars look intriguing. I have a road bike and gravel bike with dropped bars and find them comfortable on long rides. But the Jones bars may even be better. The important thing for me is to have multiple places to move my hands into different positions while riding. The Jones bars look good there.
Conventional wisdom was to ride the smallest bike you could get away with. Greg Lemond defied this wisdom and was often accused of riding a "stretch limo." Today riders manage to stretch out on small bike.
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I am not a cardiologist. It's time for a visit. Self diagnosis is risky,
Thanks! That was a long time ago and I've not had an issue with it since. I've heard of potential pro riders having to quit because they lose circulation in a leg when bent over.
World champion what a powerhouse .
He even fell during the solo and still won
He even fell during the solo and still won
And continuing (and upgrading) the family tradition. Very impressive! Congratulations!
I saw him training on the muur of geraardsbergen in belgium while i was there with my bike during the covid era in june 2020, he lives in belgium
One of my bikes a BEONE ( was once a dutch bike brand )
One of my bikes a BEONE ( was once a dutch bike brand )
Brutal race, deserved winner, now with a chance later this week to = Pauline FP and rainbow in CX, Road and MTB in the same season (will be cheering on Pidcock in this household though)
The short sharp climbs look made for her, will anyone live with Kopecky in the woman's RR??
The short sharp climbs look made for her, will anyone live with Kopecky in the woman's RR??
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