Analog vs Lampizator

[Audiophile Bill]

Hi, was just listening for a bit at Audiophile Bill's place. We tried the KR45s (which put me to sleep), the WE 101D replicas, and the KR balloon 300bs. We also tried the KR 274b and the 5u4g recti. We also had a Tara Cobalt, a Siltech Ruby double crown lent by a friend (it retails at 18k), and an excellent specially customized Sablon power cord. We also had Tellerium Q's second from the top speaker cable, to compare with the audience 24se.

Trust me, and think Bill will confirm when he comes online, these things made minimal difference. What made the difference was when we put my KR 242 in. Bam. End game. We did a lot of dems on Danse Macabre, and each note had a super grip with the 242s. The attack on each note, the pause, the time intervals, the dynamics swings, were all incredibly enhanced without having to listen for it. The dynamics and bass were superb, with extra cleanliness and resolution, the details in the bass just stood out. Soundstage, immersiveness, throw any term from that audiophile dictionary recently posted, and it was in multiples. The ease of the swing from low to high itself made it musical.

We also heard his Kuzma TT and Triplanar and Lyra Kleos. But over there fluidity in violin aside, the 242 stood out.

This is probably the strongest recommendation I will make since I have been posting about the Lampi. If you have a big 7, forget sending it for a GG upgrade. If you have a GG, forget about the 512 upgrade. First get yourself a 242 pair. If you have the GG, send it back to get it tweaked for a 242. Since Bill replaced his AR Ref 3 and Krell 750 fpbs with the Analog Domain integrated, his gain changed to allow the 242 to play, but we were still getting some distortion on some tracks, while Danse Macabre for whatever reason was playing fine.

10 times out of 10, a Lampi with 242 on PCM will beat a Lampi with other valves on DSD256. Haven't compared the PX25, Elrog or Tak 300b yet, but find it difficult to foresee a bigger jump. But hope that answers your query about 512. You can get it, but doubt that will be the differentiating factor.

Hi Ked,

Yes - it was a really enjoyable listening session for sure. I am aligned with your thinking in that the Kr242 seems to be in a different league for the large scale classical we were listening - not even close to be honest and so much so that I will need to get my GG tweaked to allow use of these moving forwards. I think it is useful to point out to people that the new Lampi Anni 5u4g was an important part of this infectious mixture - remember with the Kr 274b it is too much of a good thing. But I agree that the macro level enhancement of the dac with the 242s was very large.

I want to give a shout out also to the new Sablon Elite Reserva cable which was able to see off the Siltech Ruby Double Crown off without too much problems. I was also very impressed with the "weight" of the Tellurium Q black diamond speaker cables - definitely a leap over the ultra black and no issues beating off the Audience.

In terms of the sampling thing -> as I said before (and I hope you also agree), the Lampi PCM really is very close to dsd now that I am not so bothered about upsampling red book stuff or Tidal streaming as I am fully satisfied native.

 

[dctom]

Hi Ked, Bill
sounds like you had a good session.
what needs to be done to the GG to run it with KR242 valves. Does the transformer have to be changed?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Ked, Bill
sounds like you had a good session.
what needs to be done to the GG to run it with KR242 valves. Does the transformer have to be changed?

before you assume that switching the gain (shipping your GG back to Poland and paying for the change) for KR242 is the panacea; note that there was not direct comparison between the KR242 and the Elrog 300b's or Takatsuki 300B's with the KR242's.

and tube rolling perceptions seem to be many times system and even taste dependent.

I don't know what the answer might be to the potential comparison.

 

[Audiocrack]

before you assume that switching the gain (shipping your GG back to Poland and paying for the change) for KR242 is the panacea; note that there was not direct comparison between the KR242 and the Elrog 300b's or Takatsuki 300B's with the KR242's.

and tube rolling perceptions seem to be many times system and even taste dependent.

I don't know the answer to the comparison.

I have not heard the KR242 myself so like Mike I cannot compare the performance of the GG with these KR valves versus eg Elrog or Takatsuki 300b tubes. What I do know is that the GG sounds very good with the Elrogs so I also would suggest to play the GG with some fine 300b valves before shipping the GG back and forth to Poland (unless of course you were planning to ship it anyway for an update or repair or something).

 

[bonzo75]

The KR 300bs are no match for the 242 in my opinion. I can see with the 300b, the 101d, where differences in personal tastes would come in. But 242 was just zooming ahead, and we have done this dem on big 7 as well. Also, once you have it playing 242, it can also play the Elrog or Tak 300s, so apart from shipping cost it's a no brainer.

Dctom for you, you now have to ask Greg to tweak it in Birmingham as the authorized engineer is now there

 

[khonfused]

I am still not clear on this 242 tweaking.

Does it mean it will only play 242 tubes from there on and other tubes will not work anymore?

I have two GG in Poland at the moment, but I am not sure if this 242 thing should be an option. Lukasz does not seem convinced for the GG. Overall I am more confused than anything...

 

[bonzo75]

From what I understand the voltage needs to be adjusted so that it will play all tubes except 2a3. Did you specifically check with Lukas recently?

 

[khonfused]

I am still trying to get answers from him directly to avoid further confusion.

I wrote him an email.

 

[Jazzhead]

I am khonfused too ... Why do you have 2 GG in Pokand ?

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Big bad boy SGM server in the house - this thing is a beast!

 

[wisnon]

Guys...i think all you need is to get the max voltage less than 500mv. When I had the B7 and GG at the same time and tested the loaner 242...it distorted the Gg on both PCM and DSD. It made the B7 approach the GG. B7 had 215mv and GG was 2500mv!

The gain on the Gen 1 r2r was done high as to preserve SQ. On Gen 2, it seems it can be turned down without compromising SQ.

So Gen 1 needs FW update to cope with 242 and Gen 2 is apparently good to go. 5942x DS pcm was always good .

 

[khonfused]

5942x DS pcm was always good .

This is what confuses me. Not directly from Lukasz yet but through one of his staff/ associates/distributor (I'm not sure of his official title) who spoke with Lukasz about this it was conveyed to me that my GG (330mV) was NOT suitable for 242 tubes, only the balanced GGs were.
I don't know if this means not suitable at all or not suitable without changing anything on the unit or if he just would not recommend it.
Cave, this may be true, maybe not. That's why I would like an official answer from Lukasz. Also what his recommandation is, what he thinks is the way to go with all these "new" tubes showing up, like KR242, px25, KR 5U4G recti etc.

 

[khonfused]

I am khonfused too ... Why do you have 2 GG in Pokand ?

No need to be....

I just happen to own two at the moment, one is with Duelund caps, the other one with Mundorf. Both have the latest pcm engine on board and differ only in details (frontplate is silver or black), one has an additional AES input, one is 230V, the other one is switchable.
I will sell one of them soon after I get them both back.

 

[dctom]

Don't think I will rush into any alterations just yet. I am enjoying the GG as it is for the moment.
Hopefully Lukasz will clarify.

 

[bonzo75]

So, doing some googling, and what I found is that 242s were metal substitutes for 211s.

And on this website which is selling WE 242s at 6500 USD or so, "TUBES ALSO TESTED WITH ONGAKU AMPLIFIER TO CONFIRM THEY WORK FINE (amplifier never sound better !! any 211 we use sound like bad joke compare to 242c )"
http://www.velvetaudiohiend.com/page23.htm

That's a 242-C. There seems to be a 242A, B, and C

the WE 242 seem to be different from the KR though

 

[Audiophile Bill]

This is what confuses me. Not directly from Lukasz yet but through one of his staff/ associates/distributor (I'm not sure of his official title) who spoke with Lukasz about this it was conveyed to me that my GG (330mV) was NOT suitable for 242 tubes, only the balanced GGs were.
I don't know if this means not suitable at all or not suitable without changing anything on the unit or if he just would not recommend it.
Cave, this may be true, maybe not. That's why I would like an official answer from Lukasz. Also what his recommandation is, what he thinks is the way to go with all these "new" tubes showing up, like KR242, px25, KR 5U4G recti etc.

Lukasz recommends the Px-25 over the 242 and has confirmed that the Px-25 is compatible with single ended GG. The gain of the Px-25 is same as 242 but is still compatible.

 

[bonzo75]

Lukasz recommends the Px-25 over the 242 and has confirmed that the Px-25 is compatible with single ended GG. The gain of the Px-25 is same as 242 but is still compatible.

So when he is recommending PX25 over 242, is that because of compatibility or sonics, i.e., would he recommend PX25 over 242 in a Big 7? If not, then the comparison should be PX25 over a 242 if the GG is tweaked for 242 (which will also run PX25)

 

[Audiophile Bill]

So when he is recommending PX25 over 242, is that because of compatibility or sonics, i.e., would he recommend PX25 over 242 in a Big 7? If not, then the comparison should be PX25 over a 242 if the GG is tweaked for 242 (which will also run PX25)

His recommendation over email when I asked about the 2 was: "For SE DACs there is new excellent PX25 tube which beats 242 but it doesnt work in Balanced DACs."

..."Exactly the same gain but better everything else"

 

[bonzo75]

Ok compare soon

 

[elescher]

Doh!! I have a pair of KR 242 that I was planning on using with my SE GG. I wasn't aware of the compatibility issue so I am going to sell them. They should be delivered by the end of the week.