An argument for NOT spiking speakers to floor

[BruceD]

Just thought I would offer my two cents. I have Legacy Aeris speakers and have used spikes on a suspended wooden floor. Recently I was able to snag a pair of the Townshend Podiums and have been impressed. The corner feet are adjustable and have some sort of air suspension in them that you adjust as far as stiffness. Anyways, without the podium, the Aeris sounded great - dynamic and powerful. With the Townshend the speakers have a much greater ability to disappear and get out of the way. In particular, female voices seem noticeably clearer and have more air around them. The bass is still fantastic, but lost some heft to it. It seems a little faster, most likely due to not having resonance so prevalent in the output.

+1 for the Townshend Podiums--at least a Speaker placement unit that actually delivers what it states--
Well worth auditioning

BruceD

 

[QuadDiffuser]

I do not subscribe to the diode theory of “draining” vibrations into the floor; I believe that any cabinet vibrations, if coupled to the floor in any manner whatsoever, simply excite the floor and result in undesirable drum-like resonances and subsequently time-delayed bass smear. Apartment dwellers, just ask your neighbor downstairs.

Not only do I decouple the speakers freely from the floor by “floating” them on Aurios Pro bearings (4 pieces per side), but place diaphragmatic bass absorber platforms (6”H x 16”W x 29”H) filled with activated carbon under each speaker to passively absorb the the low frequencies (both structural and some airborne) before they even reach the bearings. The results are just fantastic!

 

[DaveC]

I do not subscribe to the diode theory of “draining” vibrations into the floor; I believe that any cabinet vibrations, if coupled in any manner, simply excite the floor and result in undesirable drum-like resonances and subsequently time-delayed bass smear.

Absolutely!

Even concrete floors sound bad when driven by speakers... I've never experienced a situation where coupling is better.

 

[QuadDiffuser]

Full-range loudspeakers’ cabinet-to-foor bass energy transmission is not dissimilar to that of subwoofers. Dennis explains how to optimize one (of the many) placement variables, as well as airborne/structural vibrations in his video:

 

[kach22i]

Another argument for not spiking speakers to the floor, this time by Symposium platforms.

Click link to read whole approach.

Quote:
http://www.symposiumusa.com/tech3.html
The speaker should be placed flat down onto the Svelte, WITHOUT spikes. While spikes are a useful and effective device, their function, when compared to a full Svelte Shelf, is somewhat limited. This is because the spike is an energy conduit between the speaker's cabinet and its support structure (in most cases, a floor). Excess mechanical energy which exists in the loudspeaker cabinet intermodulates with the action of the loudspeaker diaphragms - and this is true of dynamic or electrostatic speakers. As the cabinet shakes, it also moves the actual diaphragm through its support frame- subtlely blurring and muddying sound quality..............

 

[Kingrex]

I was trying to get m PAP trio 15 horn more ear level. I put the speakers o a hugh 8" tall 70lbs block of wood. So as not to damage my floor, I put the block on 1" fiberglass mat insulation. The bass was so phenomenally better I never touched it again. I don't really know if it's the fiberglass or the heavy stand.

What I do know is every footer under every piece of my gear makes an impact. Some stuff wants firm. Others want soft. Put the wrong one on the wrong piece and its a step back. You need the right type under the right gear.

 

[kach22i]

Read this today and thought it applies to the topic.

https://soundbridge.io/membrane-absorbers/

It is also useful to know that wood floors on joists, which are, of course, membrane absorbers, can produce additional drum sounds ...........

 

[Phillyb]

No set rules. Spikes can make a speaker sound better or far worse, my Quads sucked with spikes, and other speakers I've heard also. The some I've owned sounded better.

I try them and then take them off. Some speakers sound more present and far more dynamic without them on. Some the spikes just change the tone of the speaker by making the highs and upper mids more forward, is that right now, so your trading one coloration for another, like all things use what sounds best to your ear and room because the room is a huge part of the sound you sit and listen to.

Some speakers now days come with feet already on them where they give you screws to screw into the feet, the feet already give you a firm foundation without the spikes. If you have a set like that and you have a solid floor below the carpet then give them a try both ways.

If you lose weight, tone, body to the vocals, and color of the music then its been strip away for a "clean" sound then you missing what real instruments sound like.

 

[Cellcbern]

Best argument for not spiking speakers to the floor:

GAIA Wins Prestigious EISA Award

IsoAcoustics is honoured to receive the prestigious Best Product award at the 2019-2010 EISA Awards.

isoacoustics.com

 

[Phillyb]

With the GAIA footers, you lost all body and warmth and dynamics in the bass, for wispy clear sound and that is not how real music sounds. Like all tweaks it just a change in sound. Put 4 firm apples under a piece of gear and guess what the sound will change. Speakers designers voice their speakers as is, the same for audio gear. The drum clicks become less there and that is easy to hear, the bass is bah. You also can hear the loss of presence on everything. I sent them back to the store.

 

[Cellcbern]

With the GAIA footers, you lost all body and warmth and dynamics in the bass, for wispy clear sound and that is not how real music sounds. Like all tweaks it just a change in sound. Put 4 firm apples under a piece of gear and guess what the sound will change. Speakers designers voice their speakers as is, the same for audio gear. The drum clicks become less there and that is easy to hear, the bass is bah. You also can hear the loss of presence on everything. I sent them back to the store.

With the Gaia footers on my speakers body, bass, warmth, articulation, clarity, dynamics, presence all improved compared to when I had them on spikes. One of the two or three best tweaks I've ever tried.

 

[DaveC]

With the GAIA footers, you lost all body and warmth and dynamics in the bass, for wispy clear sound and that is not how real music sounds. Like all tweaks it just a change in sound. Put 4 firm apples under a piece of gear and guess what the sound will change. Speakers designers voice their speakers as is, the same for audio gear. The drum clicks become less there and that is easy to hear, the bass is bah. You also can hear the loss of presence on everything. I sent them back to the store.

I've never heard anything like this before!

IME, they make the bass dynamics better defined and overall clearer, and the clarity extends up into the midrange. They prevent a massive amount of energy from being transmitted into the floor, which reduces or prevents the structure and items attached to the structure from resonating. Without the isoacoustics footers my entire home may "sing along" with the music at higher SPLs, think window frames and hanging artwork, photos and mirrors rattling and buzzing, etc. Even on concrete floors, the results of spiking are inferior vs proper isolation.

So IDK... it's hard to say what's going on, negative results with Isoacoustics products are a very rare occurrence. I do understand how coupling can create all sorts of other sounds that some may find pleasant, but it's not what's on the recording.

Also, this is NOT a "tweak". Tweak is used to describe something that we think might work but isn't understood. We understand exactly what this does and how it works. Placing rocks and clocks and whatnot in your room is a tweak.

 

[Phillyb]

Anything you add aftermarket to change the sound of gear is a tweak. Be it spikes, footers, decoupling, dampers, and on and on. They all will change the sound, just like a power cord will. In the end, it only what coloration you enjoy which is preamps, amps, and speakers all sound different, and why we decide to chose gear for the sound we enjoy. If you like GAIA great. If you sell GAIA then I am sure you will love them.

 

[Gregadd]

Hmm Interesting--something Max Townshend's been spruiking for years!--I tend to agree with the thinking myself -YVMV

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BruceD

I would hope that he actually verified that vibration was transferred to the actual music wave. It appears his device is measuring vibrations across the speaker box. Just speculating.

 

[aangen]

I temporarily removed my GAIA footers from under my Wilsons and I immediately miss them.
I guess have have a different opinion that Mr. Phillyb.

 

[Phillyb]

aangen, it's what you like, to each his own. My speakers and the Quads sounded much better el natural. GIGA changes the sound as any footers would and even spikes of different materials sound different. Townshend is dead-on right.

(10) The effect of ground vibration on audio systems - YouTube

(10) How to isolate speakers from ground-borne vibration: Seismic Isolation Podium for speakers - YouTube

(10) Are vibration damping tweaks worth the money? - YouTube

Even Townshend says with his system your sound may be less funky but more natural. But, again it what you enjoy.

 

[aangen]

List away sir. It won't change my opinion. I studied what was offered, tried the product and enjoyed the results.
You can't change that with lists of youtube videos.
You can disagree, sure. Lots of people get things wrong. No shame in that.
I am curious as to why you would want to be in this thread if you don't believe in the topic.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I am curious as to why you would want to be in this thread if you don't believe in the topic.

For entertainment.

 

[BlueFox]

My wooden floor is on a concrete slab, which sits directly on the ground. Spiking my speakers made them a bit clearer (better sounding), but I suspect there would be an even better improvement if there was an airspace (basement) under my living room.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

My wooden floor is on a concrete slab, which sits directly on the ground. Spiking my speakers made them a bit clearer (better sounding), but I suspect there would be an even better improvement if there was an airspace (basement) under my living room.

I wonder why you think that? One of the best systems I have ever heard was in Bob Ludwig's main room at Gateway Mastering Studios. His very large speakers sit directly on bedrock and, by means of strategic cut-outs in the floor, are physically isolated from the room structure. Rock-solid bass.