An argument for NOT spiking speakers to floor

[kach22i]

This goes against everything I've ever experienced, but here it is.

Does it make any sense to you?

Alsyvox
https://alsyvox.com/our-technology/

CONVENTIONAL LOUDSPEAKER ON SPIKES
No matter how rigid a box is it will vibrate at some frequency.
Stiff connection to the floor gives reflected waves in the frame.

DIPOLE LINE SOURCE ON SOFT LEVELERS
A distribution of small forces is less prone to excite frame vibrations.
Compliant (soft) connection to the floor does not give reflected waves in the frame.

Anything is possible in theory, but then you have to prove it with experiments, right?

 

[BruceD]

Hmm Interesting--something Max Townshend's been spruiking for years!--I tend to agree with the thinking myself -YVMV

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BruceD

 

[Folsom]

Gary from Gensis covered some of this pretty well, how they work/don't with speakers.

But no, I think their information is simplified and incorrect.

 

[Zero000]

I was talking to Daniele about this in the Alsyvox room last Munich.

He even sent me a quote for the feet for my Apogees.

TBH if I put my Duettas on spikes they sound better than just on the carpet sans spikes. But I am changing rooms and spikes probably won't be suitable so I may order the feet and see what happens.

 

[Zero000]

So for the above post damping the frame appears to soften the sound and compromise bass tightness or definition. It sounds warmer, but not for the best.

So I am not sure I agree. He is right though it should and does calm the frame down.

At the end of the day it's best to just use what sounds best to you. I suspect using his feet is different again to letting medium pile carpet do the job.

 

[Zero000]

Another issue is unwanted frame vibrations don't help a speaker. What I mean by that is both wanted and unwanted vibration will attempt to deconstruct your 'best made' speaker.

In other words, anything you can do to reduce overall levels of vibration may actually help to extend the life of the speaker.

Bolts can be a problem, for instance, and they have a tendency to want to undo themselves. It's very important to take countermeasures to avoid this sort of thing from happening.

 

[kach22i]

UPDATE: Found this by accident while looking up a different product/subject/item.

Bafflex Speakers
http://www.highfidelitycables.com/speakers/bafflex/

Another key design principle of this loudspeaker is a concept known as mechanical grounding. Mechanical grounding is based on the principle that vibrational energy wants to move to the largest mass. Typically that means that vibrations want to go to earth. This can also be referred to as earth grounding, but in this case refers to a mechanical concept unlike electrical earth grounding........................................

The footers connected to the stand are also made of solid brass. The geometry of the footer is highly tapered which causes the vibrations to move out the footer and into the ground or floor beneath it. Because of the inertia and energy going out of the footer it is impossible for vibrations to come back into the loudspeaker. In this way, the speaker itself becomes a mechanical sink that drains vibrations quickly away from the drivers.

This causes the speaker not to load like conventional speakers. No matter how much energy you give it, you can easily channel this energy with the drivers so that the modulation of the drivers that is typical in conventional speakers does not happen in Bafflex. This gives the speaker and very clear coherent sound.

I am much more convinced by the High Fidelity Cables open baffle speaker "Bafflex" literature than the Alsyvox ribbon speaker with rubber feet that I posted earlier. And I love the metal brass, so there is that.

Apples and oranges comparison of; open baffle, ribbon, ESL (stats), horns, and boxes?

Energy is energy, you have to manage it one way or another, right?

 

[andromedaaudio]

One argument is the plates under the spikes usually dont move automatically with the spikes when you move the speakers.
With finite element classic footers 70 mm wide , I move the speakers where ever i want , 250 kg. Easy and no imprint in wooden floors

 

[andromedaaudio]

My speakers dont resonate at all.
With house musici half power i put my finger on the Ls housing 10 mm from the 12 inch driver flange .
Nothing dead as a dodo.
40 mm HPL rules


Ps my speakers at full power is not possible in a residential building.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Anybody who listened to speakers like Wilson /kharma exquisite knows what i m talking about ....decay
First a dead housing then decoupling.
You can put a cheap mdf box on 2k decouplers it aint gonna work

 

[andromedaaudio]

 

[andromedaaudio]

Shiitty acoustics at that time i know no curtains , sounds better with good headphones
But who would nt wanna miss the open views on Schiphol/ amsterdam.
The filters were still experimental( X over values not 100% determend) and were externally connected with crocodile beak cables no soldering

 

[andromedaaudio]

I would not put the apogees on soft feet .
I think in this case the material / stiffness of the frame is also very important

 

[andromedaaudio]

There is an apogee specialst in Holland , I assume he also makes modifications regarding the original frame .
Not sure however

 

[Zero000]

Practically no matter what you do the frame of large planars will vibrate especially if it goes down to 20Hz.

Which is why Alsyvox designed the feet despite using steel frames.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I would not use steel for the frame no dampning , there are Alu alloys that are as strong as steel and dampen much more , i would use something like ALU 7075 or possibly 6000 series or I would use phenolic resin based frames ( HPL).
With the right finite element couplers to the floor , no soft coupling to the floor ( loss of clarity)

 

[kach22i]

There is an apogee specialst in Holland , I assume he also makes modifications regarding the original frame .
Not sure however

Here is a question, be it for boxes or planers/ribbons or what ever..................is it the weight Vs energy or the stiffness/dampening vs energy ratio that determines if one should decouple or couple to the floor?

I ask because the brass plate open baffle speaker has gotta weigh a lot, but those white tower speakers in the video maybe not so much.

Add to it the Alsyvox ribbon speaker looks pretty light compared to most speakers given the energy it's probably capable of producing.

andromedaaudio, very impressive video.

 

[Folsom]

Here is a question, be it for boxes or planers/ribbons or what ever..................is it the weight Vs energy or the stiffness/dampening vs energy ratio that determines if one should decouple or couple to the floor?

I ask because the brass plate open baffle speaker has gotta weigh a lot, but those white tower speakers in the video maybe not so much.

Add to it the Alsyvox ribbon speaker looks pretty light compared to most speakers given the energy it's probably capable of producing.

andromedaaudio, very impressive video.

The question doesn’t really work...

 

[andromedaaudio]

Imo one should never couple to the floor,
Always use something like finite element , spikes.
First reduce /eliminate the vibrations where they try to occur.
In a ribbon speaker the foil tries to set the frame in vibration.
In a cone speaker the cone does the same with the housing.
Im sure its not so easy to keep that frame under control so there needs to be bracing etc.
Point is you want your decoupling devices not having to work much at all.
Where the problem needs to be dealt with is in the frame not the footers.
But thats all imo.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I ll watch this vid later at work and give you my opinion , I ll also read in to the alsyvox info.


My designs:
40 mm braced Hpl will result in around 250 kg per speaker .
Try to move one lol