A $42,000 transport.

[spiritofmusic]

Alex, I get your frustration/incredulity
Speaking for myself only, I have no "feeling" for computer audio
Then again, I have a prejudice against purely online shopping, Kindle, fast food, Cloud living, Instagram/Snapchat etc, the Kardashians, Amazon/EBay only shopping, the death of shops, Google self drive cars...and yes, the rise and dominance of streaming
For me, SGM is cutting thru my aversion to all things non physical media, and making the best argument to go streaming, both SQ and ease of use/intuitiveness
Otoh, the more I get criticised by streaming adoptees for having my head stuck in the sand, the more I'll stick up for dedicated cdp

 

[microstrip]

We compared the C2A, Vitus dac ( not the top one, can't recall model, R something), and Lampi. The C2A waa much better than the Vitus, and Lampi waa better than the c2a. The owner's preference too.

Anyway, since you mentioned natural, this guy owned the c2a, which I had heard 2 years before at his. He bought the Vitus on impulse and invited me over for a listen (lives local). Told me it was more detailed. When I went over, I asked him, which was more liquid? He said, metronome. Which was more full bodied? He said, metronome. Which had more natural tone? He said, metronome. I said, so why don't you put it back in and verify it? He did, and next day sold off the Vitus at a small loss. Just that it was a case study on how people buy on impulse and even try to justify it though they can hear better. The Vitus dac, btw, had nothing in common with their power amp sound. And his integrated at the time was the RIA non class A Vitus, which again is nowhere as good as the class A Vitus

The Metronome's are still in my system - I do not want to risk selling them cheap and regretting it later, so I have done the comparison you refer many times with several iterations of my current system. I could easily live with it or the DCS for CD playback, but I acknowledge the Vivaldi extracts more music from the recording in a way I find more enjoyable, particularly if I have significant live experience with the type of recording I am listening. But sometimes it depends on the recording - I have a few CDs that I still prefer on the Metronome, for its "joy" of playback. Please do not ask me what I mean by it if I do not understand what I mean ...

Most Metronome owners are waiting for the release of Metronome ultimate DAC, the Kalista DAC, but it has been postponed several times.

 

[microstrip]

(...) It simply does not compute

I easily accept it - but for me musical preference and selection is well above WBF, although I sometimes learn about music from WBF posters ...

 

[asiufy]

Alex, I get your frustration/incredulity
Speaking for myself only, I have no "feeling" for computer audio
Then again, I have a prejudice against purely online shopping, Kindle, fast food, Cloud living, Instagram/Snapchat etc, the Kardashians, Amazon/EBay only shopping, the death of shops, Google self drive cars...and yes, the rise and dominance of streaming
For me, SGM is cutting thru my aversion to all things non physical media, and making the best argument to go streaming, both SQ and ease of use/intuitiveness
Otoh, the more I get criticised by streaming adoptees for having my head stuck in the sand, the more I'll stick up for dedicated cdp

hahahaha good answer!
But let me tell you, I have an aversion to just about everything you listed there. Being here in the US, I can see for myself the damage Amazon is doing to the retail landscape, and it isn't pretty. I also don't "get" the Instagram/Snapchat thing... And so on and so forth...
But still, I honestly don't see the relation. It's not "computer audio" anymore, it's just "digital audio". It's music as a service. I'd panic if we were "sold" streaming as the be-all end-all of audio, because I can't be without my records. Since the LPs are fine, and coming out in record numbers, I see streaming as a nice companion, and "add-on" if you will, a tool to discover new music (that's also coming out in record numbers). And I see hi-res as another companion.
My music consumption habits work like this: new album comes out (or I get a link from a friend to a cool album he's found out -- like I did just now -- cheers Keith!), I listen on Tidal. If I like it "so so", it becomes a favorite or goes on a playlist. I like it just fine and I think I'll listen to it again, I buy the download. If it's definitely something I need to have in physical form, the LP it is.
If you like the ease of use aspect of the SGM, most other servers/streamers are just as easy. I know because I have to deal with this on a daily basis with my clients, and most have no trouble at all navigating their streamers, and I get a lot less "support calls" than even I imagined we'd get...

 

[asiufy]

I easily accept it - but for me musical preference and selection is well above WBF, although I sometimes learn about music from WBF posters ...

I don't understand your sentence. You mean the kind of music you listen to only comes in 16/44? Nothing at all is avaiable in hi-res/DSD? Where does WBF comes into play here?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Alex, I 100% agree with you, and for me it's only a matter of time before I commit
I have somewhat been spoilt having my one and only ongoing exposure to streaming consisting of a v well set up SGM
And for me the almost zero noise floor (in)audible in its presentation means I may struggle to get past it and choose another option
Certainly it's a closer approximation to analog than my Eera cdp which itself is the most analog like cdp I've had the priveledge of owning
If I have a reasonable barrier to going streaming, whether SGM or cheaper, it's that my specialist genres really aren't represented brilliantly on Tidal, and had I relied on streaming only, three quarters of my prog and fusion library would be empty

 

[caesar]

Generally speaking, here's what we have so far, apart from the crowd that's buying an expensive transport to purely project high class and status:
- expensive transports are not going away for the folks who want more body and musicality from their high end experience
- Guys who love a highly detailed, precise, frequently analytical presentation and call gear that has those qualities as "BEST", championed by the computer audiophile geek, "worthless to the audio fan" Robert Harley, and "Squatter reviewer" Alan Sircom, like ripped files better and think transports are a huge waste of money. These guys are happy with (sometimes disguised) computers as their transports
- Those who like to upsample their files to the quadrillion DSD, and the like, will gravitate toward products like the SGM server, which is also quite expensive

 

[asiufy]

Well, as I said, let go of your preconceptions (like you did when you experienced the SGM - and was pleasantly surprised), and give it a go! As I said before, it's not that much of an investment, for a possibly great and fun reward.

I agree that there's not a whole lot of prog in hi-res, mostly some SACDs and Steven Wilson's remixes. But Tidal has a *ton* of prog, obscure and mainstream! So much that I actually came up with two and a half hours of *italian prog* on a playlist here!

https://tidal.com/playlist/c1a278a1-11df-45c5-a688-ec97a8c32340

I'll tackle 70s fusion next. I'm sure I can come up with at leas 3 hours of solid stuff.

As far as prog goes, the only obvious absence in Tidal is King Crimson.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Alex, didn't you know "Preconceptions" is my middle name?
Blue58 would confirm to you how much mental energy I've expended trying to resist the incoming tide
Then again I get fed up of all the reasons why people won't on principle touch vinyl
Hey, 5 billion inhabitants on this planet, 5 billion neuroses

 

[853guy]

Alex, didn't you know "Preconceptions" is my middle name?
Blue58 would confirm to you how much mental energy I've expended trying to resist the incoming tide
Then again I get fed up of all the reasons why people won't on principle touch vinyl
Hey, 5 billion inhabitants on this planet, 5 billion neuroses

OH MY GOD!!!

What's happened to the other 2.5 billion...??!!

853guy

 

[spiritofmusic]

Erm, they left with L Ron Hubbard some time ago

 

[microstrip]

I don't understand your sentence. You mean the kind of music you listen to only comes in 16/44? Nothing at all is avaiable in hi-res/DSD? Where does WBF comes into play here?

Yes, most of the music I listen only comes nowadays in 16/44. Some is available in SACD and I have found that the Vivaldi transport sounds better playing physical SACDs than DSD files - and good SACDs are in general better sounding than CDs.

WBF is mainly a source of entertainment, information and exchange of opinions on high-end equipment. And sure it helps me enjoying my music. But my musical preferences did not change because of it.

I will give you an example. Sometimes I read about the history of an orchestra or conductor. Then for a period I research, buy and listen to recordings by them. Look for example to the recordings of Carlos Kleiber, considered the greatest conductor of all time. Unless you want to listen just to Beethoven 5th and 7th, avaliable in 96/24, you have listen to CD's or mostly to poor pressed LP's.

Try getting the works of Ligeti in HiRez ...

BTW, I have Roon, Tidal HQ and a NAS server. However they are not my preferred source.

 

[PeterA]

Generally speaking, here's what we have so far, apart from the crowd that's buying an expensive transport to purely project high class and status:
- expensive transports are not going away for the folks who want more body and musicality from their high end experience
- Guys who love a highly detailed, precise, frequently analytical presentation and call gear that has those qualities as "BEST", championed by the computer audiophile geek, "worthless to the audio fan" Robert Harley, and "Squatter reviewer" Alan Sircom, like ripped files better and think transports are a huge waste of money. These guys are happy with (sometimes disguised) computers as their transports
- Those who like to upsample their files to the quadrillion DSD, and the like, will gravitate toward products like the SGM server, which is also quite expensive

Caesar, That's quite a synopsis. And your descriptors for the reviewers are pretty funny.

You seem to argue that it is about the sonics. I'm not so sure. Others contend that it may be also be, or be instead, or be more or less, about convenience, life style, tapping and swiping glass tablets, having an aversion to physical media, "getting with the times", or any number of other things. It seems to me that it can be about any of those things, including sonics, for people, plus what their friends or dealers have, or even about what they have just read on the net. There are just so many options out there, and that must be a good thing. What I wonder about is whether or not these options will narrow in the future, and how much sound quality actually plays a roll in all of this.

We could follow Alex's advice and just dabble in all of it, allowing it to peacefully coexist in our systems. That seems fine as long as one can figure it all out.

 

[bonzo75]

Even if we allow all to coexist in our systems we are still beholden to discuss what's best

 

[PeterA]

Even if we allow all to coexist in our systems we are still beholden to discuss what's best

Indeed, but it seems that so few of us have actual experience directly comparing the digital alternatives. At least I don't read about many accounts on WBF. Do you agree that there is a dearth of user comparisons? It seems we are left to listen for ourselves to decide, like MikeL and jfrech are doing. But even then, it is hard for anyone to hear many of the alternatives in a known system. And new devices, and technology are introduced all the time.

I agree that a discussion of what's best would be interesting. I just won't be able to contribute to it due to my lack of experience with digital.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

BTW, I have Roon, Tidal HQ and a NAS server. However they are not my preferred source.

they were all pretty good here......

although the SGM server is missing from your list.

 

[bonzo75]

Indeed, but it seems that so few of us have actual experience directly comparing the digital alternatives. At least I don't read about many accounts on WBF. Do you agree that there is a dearth of user comparisons? It seems we are left to listen for ourselves to decide, like MikeL and jfrech are doing. But even then, it is hard for anyone to hear many of the alternatives in a known system. And new devices, and technology are introduced all the time.

I agree that a discussion of what's best would be interesting. I just won't be able to contribute to it due to my lack of experience with digital.

There is a general dearth of experience comparing digital.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Peter, like you I have little experience w streamers
Ked has somewhat more
I actually feel the SGM has a real advantage w low noise floor leading to a real analog like flow and sound lacking digital archetypes, as close by far as any digital to listening to lp on a good tt
I really had no preconceptions ahead of hearing the SGM for the first time a year ago at Blue58, but it was this noise free continuousness that really made me sit up and take notice
Now I've only heard Aurender and Melco a couple of times, and Auralic Aries for a few months at Blue58 prior to his acquisition, so not an in depth comparison, but my impression is the SGM is streets ahead
So Peter, as someone who's going to be extremely sensitive to wanting to get as much analog feel from a potential streaming option, SGM should be top of your list
Now whether this influences whether a streamer or cdp is the best option, I guess that depends on many other things
But SGM is so compelling, I'm seriously considering deferring what would have been funds I'd have spent in a new tt or speakers, to SGM likely (it does help I'm pretty happy with the rest of my system)
And as Alex says, the world of music it opens up makes the decision even more of a no brainer

 

[microstrip]

they were all pretty good here......

although the SGM server is missing from your list.

As far as I understand the SGM is optimized for delivery of data over USB - not the best choice for someone having a Vivaldi upsampler.

 

[microstrip]

There is a general dearth of experience comparing digital.

Very true, I have said it too many times ...