Videos of Acoustically-Coupled Audio Recordings

[Carlos269]

No problem, I was replying also specifically to your comment regarding the Fertin being the only full range driver offering sufficient high frequency extension to not require a tweeter. I just wanted to point out another aspect (the upper midrange shout) which I personally find difficult with many FR. I understand that does not apply to PeterA's system, and if you have that under control yourself, it's all good...

Understood. Just wanted to be clear. I have quite a collection of full-range drivers here at home and collection of back-horn loaded and JE Labs style Open Baffles. What I have found is that the better full-range drivers like the Stefan Stamm Loth-X, original version, the Atelier-Rullit Alnico permanent magnets, the PHY’s, the SEAS full range drivers along with the Fertin and Supravox, both modern and vintage, do not exhibit the midrange shout that the Lowther’s are known for, at least to to an appreciable extend.

 

[PeterA]

If you want to hear an example of ear-piercing high-frequencies reproduction that is passed off as HIgh-End Audio today please visit Jay’s Audio Lab and you will hear what I mean instantly.

I agree. It seems that that type of sound pretty much is what people think of as High End Audio today. The comments about some of Jay's videos are very telling. Many people really like the sound presented in those videos. And the popularity of brands like Wilson and Magico reflect it.

 

[wil]

Here is the link to the Tidal track streamed on the videos

Good choice.

Copland conducting the London Symphony is good too — notably different than all the others.

 

[Ron Resnick]

It seems that that type of sound pretty much is what people think of as High End Audio today. . . . And the popularity of brands like Wilson and Magico reflect it.

I really do think that amplification materially affects the sound. For me, tubes on Wilson is the difference between enjoying the music for hours and not enjoying it as much.

 

[Carlos269]

I agree. It seems that that type of sound pretty much is what people think of as High End Audio today. The comments about some of Jay's videos are very telling. Many people really like the sound presented in those videos. And the popularity of brands like Wilson and Magico reflect it.

There is a lot I could say on this but I just don’t have time. I’m already the Audiophile Anarchist.

I will leave you and others with a simple analogy for some food for thought: with all the high-end performance sports cars manufacturers engaged in the horsepower-count race, Porsche engineers thought that there had to be a smarter way to be the king at Nurburgring Nordschleffe. They realized that increasing horsepower beyond a certain point becomes counterproductive as it requires larger and heavier breaks & other components to support the larger and more powerful engines; so Porsche decided that their ideal sports car should be around 500 to 600 HP and that instead of increasing the horsepower they would instead of the industry standard reduce the weight of their cars.

What does that have to do with High-End Audio systems, I have been down the road in the pursuit of a ruler flat response from 20Hz to 20KHz and what I hear I did not and do not like. The myth of flat frequency response is not ideal, when you consider the Fletcher-Munson curves and all other Psychoacoustic considerations related to human cognitive hearing.

In other words, some high-end audio manufacturers and owners are simply running the wrong race.

 

[andromedaaudio]

To me its easy .
I make what i want to listen too .
If you dont like it .... there is the door

 

[wil]

A number of interesting comments in the latest videos of my systems. I’ve been busy but want to address some of them as they are very good comments and assessments:



Brad the LampizatOr is a custom upgraded version of the DSD-Only dac that LampizatOr put out a number of years ago, not a recent dac but it was updated and upgraded in 2021 by Lukazs and his team in Poland. The ValveDac is a custom DIY dac based on Marcel Van De Gevel’s white paper on Linear Audio. What makes the ValveDac technically interesting and special is that it is the only dac design in the world that uses the tubes as part of the conversion process. My ValveDac is the Raw-DSD only variant.

I agree with you that the LampizatOr sounds more exciting, dramatic, and colorful. It is the “matter of fact” neutrality, and organic sound that draws me to the ValveDac.


The Fertin 20EX silver-voicecoil fieldcoil drivers are exceptional and clearly the best of the three sets of fullrange field coil drivers that I own, the other two being Supravox and Atelier-Rullit.

I purposely handicapped the Fertin based system to prove a point to Al (Al M.). The other systems demonstrate greater inner and low level detail because they are using DSD512 from HQPLAYER as their source material, same Tidal file being streamed to all three 3 dacs in these videos. The Fertin’s would pull away with HQPLAYER.







This is a topic that I have addressed previously in PeterA’ Natural Sound thread: I think that the key to what Peter refers to as ”Natural Sound” is rooted in the high-frequency contour. I agree with Peter that the high frequencies spectral content and high frequency energy produced by most High-End Audio systems is not accurate and representative of what we hear in real life. The real world offers way more absorption and many of those high frequencies captured by closed up microphones don’t have much chance of reaching our ears in nature. Consider this, the higher the frequency the more directional it becomes, how can our ears capture all the sound from a wide stage with the level of precision that a well recorded, with close microphones, can render? Stereo systems often sound bigger and greater than what we hear in real life. Peter’s goal, as I understand it, is not to reproduce the recordings but to reproduce real life. My Ferin 20EX fieldcoil drivers is so far the only fullrange driver that I have own or listen to that can go as high as it is needed by me and which does not require the assistance of a super tweeter!

Carlos, I appreciate this comment. I had not given much thought as to why what I hear from many systems does not remind me of what I hear live, but the presentations of the high frequencies is certainly a big part of it. I wrote in a different thread that I never think about high frequency extension when going to hear live music at Boston Symphony Hall. (I marvel at the clarity above all else when actually trying to understand the sound. I also appreciate the dynamics and sense of balance and energy.) Yet, when I hear a recording of classical music, some systems draw my attention to the high frequencies. This emphasis on the highs and the resultant lack of balance to the sound is what prevents these systems from sounding natural to me.

People have commented that my speakers are rolled off and suggested that I add some kind of super tweeter. I guess they prefer a measurement that looks flat out to 20K Hz.

My goal is for my system to recreate an experience similar to the one I remember having when listening to live music. You are right that it is not to reproduce the recordings per se, but I do want the system to reflect differences between various recordings, just as live music reflects differences between different violins being played by different people in different spaces. I do not want my system to homogenize the sound, but to clearly deliver the information embedded in the recording and present a natural sound in the room for that live sound experience. A big part of that is to not emphasis the high frequencies on each recording.

The difference between the high frequencies in the most natural of all natural sound — that is, the sounds we hear outside on Planet Earth (away from the man -made noise floor) — has the most intense high frequencies you will ever hear.

Listen to a Cardinal from 20’ away. Loud, piercing, but painless.

The difference is that this natural high frequency sound has zero artificial distortion.

I heard a distributor for Aries Cerat talk about about how as he put it, “vinyl playback distortion create a more natural sound.”

This comment struck me as odd as I view distortion and natural sound to be inversely related to one another.

Compared to the sound of nature, our stereo systems are a quagmire of distortion. I suppose it’s all about managing the quagmire as much as possible.

(not a knock on Aries Cerat or Vinyl, btw)

 

[PeterA]

To me its easy .
I make what i want to listen too .
If you dont like it .... there is the door

Yes, and that is pretty much what Nelson Pass writes. He leaves out your last sentence.

 

[hopkins]

What does that have to do with High-End Audio systems, I have been down the road in the pursuit of a ruler flat response from 20Hz to 20KHz and what I hear I did not and do not like....

In other words, some high-end audio manufacturers and owners are simply running the wrong race.

I have asked myself this question often (why do people like these "ultra high end speakers" that sound so artificial to me?) At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter. What is important is figuring out what we each like and having the opportunity to share and benefit from others’ knowledge and experience.

Take any aspect of audio and you'll find people who only swear by it, and others who think it is irrelevant.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Luciano Pavarotti Tape

 

[microstrip]

I really do think that amplification materially affects the sound. For me, tubes on Wilson is the difference between enjoying the music for hours and not enjoying it as much.

Did you have the opportunity to listen to the latest Momentum's (including the HD preamplifier) with Wilson?
Such system managed to reverse my opinion about solid state on Wilson's! Unfortunately it is too expensive ...

 

[tima]

If a system makes this music sound processed, then the system is screwed up.

Don't know if that music sounds processed so much as the music is processed. There is way too much lightweight froo-froo music at shows and I dare say here at fwb intending to 'show-off' a system.

What are the basic characteristics of music? Tonality, Dynamics and Timing. Okay, make examples of those complex. A contrapuntal of multiple different timbres and voices simultaneously (Orf's Carmina Burana).Wide range of different transients initiated at different volumes (Stravinsky's Firebird). Rhythmically devilish time signatures and syncopations. (12/8 timing in Brahm's 2nd Sym.). Etc. Etc.

Give us something interesting to hear that challenges us and the system. Too much pablum.

 

[tima]

This is a topic that I have addressed previously in PeterA’ Natural Sound thread: I think that the key to what Peter refers to as ”Natural Sound” is rooted in the high-frequency contour. I agree with Peter that the high frequencies spectral content and high frequency energy produced by most High-End Audio systems is not accurate and representative of what we hear in real life.

I will not disagree with you, but suggest further completeness as fundamental in characterizing natural sound. Here I'm talking about the foundation, das grund, of mid to low bass. While high frequencies by their very natures exhibit energy, where too many systems leave off is in presenting low frequencies without a true sense of their harmonic energy, their vitality. It is not either-or. Natural sound is balanced.

 

[Rexp]

I agree. It seems that that type of sound pretty much is what people think of as High End Audio today. The comments about some of Jay's videos are very telling. Many people really like the sound presented in those videos. And the popularity of brands like Wilson and Magico reflect it.

Now Jay has a turntable, even he doesn't like his digital playback

 

[Ron Resnick]

Did you have the opportunity to listen to the latest Momentum's (including the HD preamplifier) with Wilson?
Such system managed to reverse my opinion about solid state on Wilson's! Unfortunately it is too expensive ...

I have heard on Jeroen's Cessaro Zetas Momentums versus Alieno.

I have heard Momentums on YG Sonja.

On Wilson the only solid-state I like is darTZeel or Gryphon.

I, personally, would use big tube amps on Wilson.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Now Jay has a turntable, even he doesn't like his digital playback

Jay likes to show off , Bling Bling .

High dollar gear , please press that like button folks.
He should go for Wadax and get rid of the wilsons .
He is a digital guy he doesnt have the time for fiddling ,he is too busy with his YT channel .
Wadax has both Bling Bling and SQ

Trade the XVX s in for a Wadax and a couple of Kharma s and built a good system instead of staying in swap alley.

But stepping out of the swapbusinezz means hardly any views , it makes no sense for him

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think the problem of some contemporary loudspeakers is subjectively excessive high frequency energy. I agree with Carlos and Peter and Tim on this. Solid-state amplification, to my ears, often makes this problem worse.

I think the problem of some vintage loudspeakers is subjectively a lack of a sense of "air." I think this sense of "air" is what I sometimes feel is "missing" from some vintage loudspeakers.

When Jim Yager removed the supertweeters from his Tannoy Westminsters I began to feel something was "missing."

Each of us has to choose which set of loudspeaker compromises we prefer.

Which loudspeaker, vintage or contemporary, perhaps splits this baby in the middle in a nuanced way? No excessive treble energy, yet retaining some sense of "air"?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Pick your transducer flavour.
The fight which transducer is more accurate will continue long after we ll be gone

 

[bonzo75]

I think the problem of some contemporary loudspeakers is subjectively excessive high frequency energy. I agree with Carlos and Peter and Tim on this. Solid-state amplification, to my ears, often makes this problem worse.

I think the problem of some vintage loudspeakers is subjectively a lack of a sense of "air." I think this sense of "air" is what I sometimes feel is "missing" from some vintage loudspeakers.

When Jim Yager removed the supertweeters from his Tannoy Westminsters I began to feel something was "missing."

Each of us has to choose which set of loudspeaker compromises we prefer.

Which loudspeaker, vintage or contemporary, perhaps splits this baby in the middle in a nuanced way? No excessive treble energy, yet retaining some sense of "air"?

problem with most contemporary loud speakers is lack of any realism to tone, poor coherence, and poor bass (not deep bass or loud bass). They have frequency extensions without any quality and poor coherence between drivers. Both ported and sealed midbass is poor quality compared to horn loaded.

In vintage speakers 15kz to 40khz is matter of choice, you can have it either way, Peter chooses not to, but please stop generalising vintage loudspeakers.

there are very few modern speakers like Sigma MAAT series today that, similar to older speakers, allow use of quality low watt amps by keeping sensitivity high and impedance flat.

 

[morricab]

The Transcendent Sound “Masterpiece” 300B DHT preamp was not in the Fertin system chain. The dCS ELGA-Plus dac was driving the “Turbo 45” SET amplifier directly on these videos.

I strongly believe that the Transcendent Sound product are some of the more understated components in the High-End, primarily because they are offered as kits but also often overlooked because of their low and reasonable costs. I own two Transcended Sound preamps: the “Grounded Grid” and the “Masterpiece” and two Transcendent Sound amplifiers: the “T-16” OTL and the 1.5-watts “SE-OTL”. Interestingly, I find that the “SE-OTL” and the 5-watts First-Watt F2J are the only two amps that come close to equaling Single-Ended-Triode amplifiers. The Transcendent Sound products are stellar performers compared to others regardless of costs.

Interesting, THX. I have owned a Transcendent GG preamp in the past that I built from the kit as well as the Beast monos (that took some time to build) . I always wanted to try the SE-OTL amps but never had until recently sensitive enough speakers. Maybe I will order the most recent version as monos and try on my DIY horn setup on the tweeter horn.

Could you make a video with the 300B preamp in the chain as a comparison to the Elgar direct? Sadly, I am not a big fan of the Elgar DAC or DCS DACs in general . A friend had the Delius and then later Elgar and I was happy when he replaced them in his system.