Honestly you sound like a broken record as well as a spoiled kid yelling .
Sound Quality of new roon versions (builds)
- Thread starter christoph
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Thanks, yes, I know that. But, as I understand it the Taiko server and app can accomodate HQPlayer.
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Here's the thing IMO, (and I think Mike L hit on it a bit too) - it's all good. I don't see it as one app / implementation vs. the other. More, better hardware and software = more, better sonics. I could care less who designed it, although I appreciate it. But also, make no mistake it's also for profit, not solely out of the goodness of their owns hearts - these are businesses that need to be sustainable, as it should be.
If the Taiko TAS and XDMS apps are as good at transferring bits to sonic glory as folks purport, I think that's awesome. I also think there may be an opportunity for Emile to expand beyond his hardware and make it available (at a fee) for others, I'd certainly be interested and I'm sure others would be too. Ultimately, what a time to be alive to be able to pick the best SW to play millions of songs for ~$12 a month!
If the Taiko TAS and XDMS apps are as good at transferring bits to sonic glory as folks purport, I think that's awesome. I also think there may be an opportunity for Emile to expand beyond his hardware and make it available (at a fee) for others, I'd certainly be interested and I'm sure others would be too. Ultimately, what a time to be alive to be able to pick the best SW to play millions of songs for ~$12 a month!
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I use Wadax. So I will take Wadax, for example.
At the beginning, Wadax adopted Roon as the core for their servers. So Wadax can take full advantage of Roon's power and add their customization. They can make full great value of Roon to promote their strength. In any of which Roon's version, Wadax is still always amazing to be listened. Roon can sound bad on Taiko or other music servers but always amazing on Wadax because of that. It's a difference between Wadax and Taiko about Roon.
I wish you have a chance to hear Roon/Wadax and Taiko/XDMS. You will understand my thought.
Whatever people say, Roon is always deeply appreciated on a lot of features. No one can catch them up about features currently. About SQ, there should be no SQ difference in the software players as long as all things are kept equal. There is no actual “better.”
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Steve, fair question. i know you are a truth seeker, as am i. you are leagues beyond me regarding the techie stuff.
as i mentioned earlier, and Steve Vu just posted, there is a "Wadax SA----- Server Proxy for Roon 1.0.1." under the "Extensions" tab.
maybe every other server has the same thing for Roon? take a look at your Roon "Extensions" tab to see. read below from the Goodwin's website. is this marketing mumbo-jumbo? or does Wadax have a deeper connection to Roon?
my ears tell me it does. YMMV.
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
For me better is a moving target. To think Roon will always be number one is naive at best. The digital world is changing at lightening speed. I agree with sbo6 and as I said it’s all good. What you fail to understand is that manufacturers are making something better than Roon for their own platforms. Your references to Taiko I found somewhat ingratiating. It was the first fateful Roon build that caught everyone’s attention. Taiko made an immediate change to its software and the difference was immediately apparent. However that lasted until the next build so it was always a matter of trying to catch your tail as you’re always going in circles. That was when Emile decided there had to be a better way using his own hardware and software. Very quickly there was a Taiko app and TAS in alpha and then beta. Initially this was done to improve SQ which it did however the platform is archaic. Hence the 2 year odyssey of Emile and his ever expanding team to rethink and recreate what everyone wanted. From TAS, Emile learned on the go. Along the way a new USB board was brought to market. Along the way a decision was made that TAS could be made better. Hence a 2 year project writing the code from beginning to end XDMS version one was born. But they learned from this as well and Winston rewrote the entire program such that in May XDMS version 2 will be released along with a network card and switch ALL optimized for its own hardware and software. Later a router optimized as well will be brought to market.
Not only is this a company that optimizes it’s OS ( which BTW is also new and updated) for Roon but went one better by thinking out of the box that they could design something better than ROON. Emile hasn’t disappointed ever to we Extreme users so if we praise him daily it is because he deserves it. His daily presence here speaks volumes for the fact that he is an audiophile just like us but his desire is to build the very best server. He knows it’s a moving target and will never stand still
Thats my point Steve.Good is the enemy of great. A manufacturer in this digital world of music must always be thinking “what if”, so why not create something better than Roon. It’s all good.
Not only is this a company that optimizes it’s OS ( which BTW is also new and updated) for Roon but went one better by thinking out of the box that they could design something better than ROON. Emile hasn’t disappointed ever to we Extreme users so if we praise him daily it is because he deserves it. His daily presence here speaks volumes for the fact that he is an audiophile just like us but his desire is to build the very best server. He knows it’s a moving target and will never stand still
Thats my point Steve.Good is the enemy of great. A manufacturer in this digital world of music must always be thinking “what if”, so why not create something better than Roon. It’s all good.
there is no always, in every situation. zero.
there is only context........and subjective opinions.
Thank you, Mike. I appreciate the kind words, the information about the Proxy Server and the link to the Goodwin's site.
I wonder if the Wadax proxy server for Roon is similar in idea to using Squeezelite or HQPlayer as the back-end for Roon, optimized for Wadax' own server architecture and underlying operating system. Similar in idea to using HQPlayer integration or Squeezelite to handle (some, all?) of Roon's back end music processing duties while using Roon more as a UI shell over the software program(s) doing the heavy lifting.
Likely some of this is viewed as proprietary or intellectual property by Wadax and/or Roon -- and I don't blame a manufacturer for not giving away for free what they've spent time, resources and $$ in developing. Still, it would be interesting to find out more.
I don't pretend to understand all the software writing at the coding level, but I have a keen interest in the macro level of what developers are doing, why, and how that results in better sound quality.
I appreciate your time in replying.
Steve Z
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i think Wadax is all in with Roon and so has made all the efforts to optimize it.
in my direct interactions with Wadax, i get no actual info about a special Roon relationship, only the feeling of such, between the lines.
take that for what it is. no doubt i'm hearing some real musical magic however it is happening.
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Thank you, Steve. I appreciate you taking the time to reply. You do a good job of stating the "why" of Roon integration into the Wadax platform.
I'm not sure I complete agree with Roon's overwhelming UI superiority to every other player software out there or being developed, but that's OK. I freely admit that given a choice of using Roon *without* the sound quality issues of non-Wadax owners, I would continue to use it for its excellent user interface, warts and all (poor seach accuracy, poor handling of classical music cataloging to name two). I purchased a Roon lifetime license not long after Roon was introduced and do not regret that expenditure in the least. Roon's UI have done more for letting me discover more great music otherwise unknown to me than any other resource I've ever come across by a wide margin. I am eternally grateful for that.
Am I a little frustrated with what I see as their disregard or sometimes hostility toward users voicing sound quality concerns? Yes.
I have no idea what the to-be-released XDMS looks like or sounds like and make no predictions. I have hopes and some expectations given what I have observed and experienced over the last two years of Taiko Extreme ownership. But we'll have to wait a few more weeks to see and hear. Unlike TAS where I did some of the early beta-testing for Taiko, other than a few private discussions with Taiko personnel I have absolutely no inside experience with XDMS and other than offering my "wish list" requests, no input into Taiko's design decisions.
However, while you do an excellent job of describing the "why" of Roon integration into Wadax' architecture, I'm still trying to learn more of the "how" this is actually accomplished. Can you shed some light on this?
Thank you again for your reply,
Steve Z
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
You might have nailed it
I wonder if the Wadax proxy server for Roon is similar in idea to using Squeezelite or HQPlayer as the back-end for Roon, optimized for Wadax' own server architecture and underlying operating system. Similar in idea to using HQPlayer integration or Squeezelite to handle (some, all?) of Roon's back end music processing duties while using Roon more as a UI shell over the software program(s) doing the heavy lifting.
Steve,
Have you tried deleting the roon filters to see if the Wadax sound quality improves or not? It would be interesting to see if Wadax's roon optimization is further improved.
Which Steve? We've got three of them on this thread currently -- Steve W, V and Z!
Steve Z
There are all kinds of Roon extensions as you can see here. Tough to unpack what exactly the Wadax extension might be doing. But the word “proxy” might be a good hint. This implies that it is an intermediary. An intermediary for what is the big question of course. I think it’s unlikely that audio is being passed via this without being able to see more of the config it would be hard to say. Extensions seem to usually aim to control Roon or have Roon control something else. Maybe Wadax does have their own custom player - and this proxy tells it what to play. That’s sort of like what HQPlayer integration does, I think. Squeeze is different as its simply a streaming endpoint.
The developer of HQPlayer sees his product as a DSP engine. He doesn’t aim to make it the most transparent player. There’s a significant opportunity for another player to step in to provide this capability.
I’m spectaculating here.
my guess here is that a proxy would be placed between the 'cloud' and 'roon' to do traffic smoothing. the proxy would communicate with the cloud, and pass the data to roon in a controlled manner with an internal accurate clock.
basically, taking away the 'network' streaming control from room and feeding roon an optimized stream.
again, just my guess
another guess on my part is that the new switch and new ethernet card for the extreme will optimize the same functionality for XMDS.
i expect he meant 'at a fee', not 'at a free' (spell check strikes again)
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