Zero Distortion: Tango Time

[bonzo75]

In this case I preferred the second video too. The differences apart from the cable is also the power treatment.

It has more nuanced contrasts, better suspense, decay, pauses. The first one relative to the second sounds a bit flat. I don't put this down to silver vs copper more of Kuro vs whatever Tang has in copper. Plus the power change and the back panels might have made the difference

It would be good if Tang can record with the WE SUT the same piece.

Also Mahler 3 the first movement has a very long first wave, you really shouldn't stop it at least until around just after the 15th minute. Soon after you stopped the bold opening where you show how your system handles the french horns and trumpet, there is a very sweet melody with oboe, flute, and violin, then the trombone that plays will really show if your system can handle it, i.e. not sound thin and tipped towards the high....then the whole orchestra picks up beautifully.

 

[Al M.]

In this case I preferred the second video too. The differences apart from the cable is also the power treatment.

It has more nuanced contrasts, better suspense, decay, pauses. The first one relative to the second sounds a bit flat. I don't put this down to silver vs copper more of Kuro vs whatever Tang has in copper. Plus the power change and the back panels might have made the difference

It would be good if Tang can record with the WE SUT the same piece.

Also Mahler 3 the first movement has a very long first wave, you really shouldn't stop it at least until around just after the 15th minute. Soon after you stopped the bold opening where you show how your system handles the french horns and trumpet, there is a very sweet melody with oboe, flute, and violin, then the trombone that plays will really show if your system can handle it, i.e. not sound thin and tipped towards the high....then the whole orchestra picks up beautifully.

Interesting. I found the copper cable video (second video) sound tonally flat and grey. We all have different perceptions.

I am always struck with live music how colorful it sounds. In that sense the first video sounds much more like live, because tonally more colorful. Hands down. It's not even close.

 

[bonzo75]

Interesting. I found the copper cable video (second video) sound tonally flat and grey. We all have different perceptions.

I am always struck with live music how colorful it sounds. In that sense the first video sounds much more like live, because tonally more colorful. Hands down. It's not even close.

I think it's the other way. Also more overall drama in the second. But like I said I wouldn't attribute that to cable only.

 

[PeterA]

Tang seems to enjoy the copper. He did not mention the power. He knows the contribution of the power versus the cable. These comparisons are fun, but the important thing is that Tang seems to be enjoying himself and has identified his preference. It would be interesting to hear from Tang how he describes the different sound and why he prefers one over the other.

Tang, the bartender providing the drinks for the patrons who might at any time start to brawl.

 

[Al M.]

I think it's the other way. Also more overall drama in the second. But like I said I wouldn't attribute that to cable only.

One thing to keep in mind is that none of us is listening to Tango's system. We are listening to videos of the sound, and the transduction of the signal into sound through DACs and speakers or headphones is different for all of us. So we don't hear the same thing. We are basing our judgment on necessarily different sound experiences.

 

[bonzo75]

One thing to keep in mind is that none of us is listening to Tango's system. We are listening to videos of the sound, and the transduction of the signal into sound through DACs and speakers or headphones is different for all of us. So we don't hear the same thing. We are basing our judgment on necessarily different sound experiences.

Yes that's possible

 

[bonzo75]

Tang, the bartender providing the drinks for the patrons who might at any time start to brawl.

Al, Peter, and Bonzo walk into Tang's video bar...

 

[PeterA]

Al, Peter, and Bonzo walk into Tang's video bar...

I was going to order a Mai Tai but decided on a dark and stormy instead. Tang is only pouring beer and scotch in dirty glasses. We all have preferences and Tang knows his business.

 

[Al M.]

I was going to order a Mai Tai but decided on a dark and stormy instead. Tang is only pouring beer and scotch in dirty glasses. We all have preferences and Tang knows his business.

Dirty glasses, that's right.

 

[morricab]

I think we have a thread about using cable to cook a sound. I am one of those who like exploring cables and enjoy learning how they shape the sound. It is fun and interesting to have flexibility changing sound presentation...especially when it costs very little. Video 1 is all Kuro silvergold cables. Video 2 the speaker cables and phono cable were changed to inexpensive Japanese copper cables. I like the copper cable very much. Both Kuro and the Japanese cable offer advantages over one another. Cables are dependent on main components in the system. Often you cannot generalize them.

Video 1

Video 2

Very nice. Haven’t heard them in good enough settings yet to determine which is preferred. Who is the conductor and what record label/year?

 

[microstrip]

Unfortunately a spectral peak analysis of the first 60 seconds of the videos shows reality from a different perspective. There are significant measured spectral differences between the videos, that exceed what could associated just to different metals and technologies in the manufacture of the cables. In fact they must be due either to electrical differences in the signal path or the recording process. It would be great to have technical details about the cables, such as resistance and capacitance, the usual source of significant differences in phono cables. Video 1 at top, video 2 at bottom.

 

[PeterA]

Unfortunately a spectral peak analysis of the first 60 seconds of the videos shows reality from a different perspective. There are significant measured spectral differences between the videos, that exceed what could associated just to different metals and technologies in the manufacture of the cables. In fact they must be due either to electrical differences in the signal path or the recording process. It would be great to have technical details about the cables, such as resistance and capacitance, the usual source of significant differences in phono cables. Video 1 at top, video 2 at bottom.

View attachment 90189

Francisco, that is fascinating but I don’t really understand what these are showing. Could you please describe what we’re looking at and how the graphs relate to what we hear?

Also do you have a preference between the two videos?

 

[microstrip]

Francisco, that is fascinating but I don’t really understand what these are showing. Could you please describe what we’re looking at and how the graphs relate to what we hear?

Also do you have a preference between the two videos?

They show the peak energy of sound versus frequency during the first minute of the recording.
If using "decent" cables both spectra should look the same - "decent" cables do not change the signal in a measurable way in the audio band. They are shown in log scale, that relates to dB.

No preference for any of them , although it seemed to me I could hear different tonal qualities in each video.

 

[PeterA]

They show the peak energy of sound versus frequency during the first minute of the recording.
If using "decent" cables both spectra should look the same - "decent" cables do not change the signal in a measurable way in the audio band. They are shown in log scale, that relates to dB.

No preference for any of them , although it seemed to me I could hear different tonal qualities in each video.

The low frequency slope in the second graph is steeper than in the first graph. And the lines seem more varied in the second graph. Assuming I am reading that right, how does that relate to what we hear in the videos?

 

[microstrip]

The low frequency slope in the second graph is steeper than in the first graph. And the lines seem more varied in the second graph. Assuming I am reading that right, how does that relate to what we hear in the videos?

IMHO it is not possible to relate what we hear in an easy way - the graphs only show that something significantly changed the signal during the process of recording.

 

[MadFloyd]

I enjoyed this comparison. Beautiful music, gorgeous tone. My preference was the first video.

 

[PeterA]

IMHO it is not possible to relate what we hear in an easy way - the graphs only show that something significantly changed the signal during the process of recording.

OK. I was hoping we could learn some thing about the sound and our preferences by analyzing your measurements.

 

[morricab]

Unfortunately a spectral peak analysis of the first 60 seconds of the videos shows reality from a different perspective. There are significant measured spectral differences between the videos, that exceed what could associated just to different metals and technologies in the manufacture of the cables. In fact they must be due either to electrical differences in the signal path or the recording process. It would be great to have technical details about the cables, such as resistance and capacitance, the usual source of significant differences in phono cables. Video 1 at top, video 2 at bottom.

View attachment 90189

That is interesting but are you sure that this is capturing the exact same time average in each video? if not, some small segment of a piece could impact the overall spectral distribution. If they are exactly the same segments then it does suggest something is having a measurable impact on the frequency spectrum, which could very well be audible.

 

[morricab]

IMHO it is not possible to relate what we hear in an easy way - the graphs only show that something significantly changed the signal during the process of recording.

Do we know what the recorder is? Could it be the recorder if it is a phone?

 

[Tango]

I listen in admiration of what your are achieving. Such music.

Is that Haitink?

Another to try is Jascha Horenstein w/ LSO, HB73023.

Thank you tima. It is Mehta conducting LA Philharmonic, Analog Production APC117.