What's the best DAC digital interface possible?

[Whatmore]

It is great that you have such a great ear and hear clock upgrades and the disappointing of USB.

Of course there can be no expectation bias involved in any of your opinions of your DIY upgrades and mods.

You must have some excellent speakers. Why can't you reveal what you are listening to?

They must be really great! Maybe something like Bose 901s???

You'll be pleased to know that my assessment of the sound quality of the SD card involved no measurements whatsoever and was fully sighted

 

[Kal Rubinson]

So how do you manage an 8TB library with the loimited interface? is it that you have to resort to playlists?

I see that issue as quite important. Using SD cards, one must keep an array of them indexed by content and swap them in/out much as one has to do with CDs or, even, vinyl and R2R tape. Those of us with large libraries (and, in my case, libraries consisting of very large files) are not willing to tolerate such an inconvenience. Of course, this has nothing to do with issues of performance or sound quality but with quality of life issues.

 

[edorr]

Let me offer another thougth. I have rotated to many digital sources (CAPS USB, I2S server, Lynx AES/EBU, Modded Oppo with S/PDIF, Streaming) and found the differences to be relatively small. Never stumbled on a source / interface that knocked me off my sox and blew all else out of the water. The same is true for storage media /architecture. This learning curve has of course set me back thousands of $$$. If I had to do it all over again I would not fret nearly as much about my digital source, and save myself a bunch of trips to Fedex and a boatload of cash. OK - heresy alert. Shoot me.

 

[Blizzard]

I see that issue as quite important. Using SD cards, one must keep an array of them indexed by content and swap them in/out much as one has to do with CDs or, even, vinyl and R2R tape. Those of us with large libraries (and, in my case, libraries consisting of very large files) are not willing to tolerate such an inconvenience. Of course, this has nothing to do with issues of performance or sound quality but with quality of life issues.

It is a shame that the SDtrans384 is limited to 32gb SD cards. But still you can fit thousands of albums between 2 fingers. Depending on file format, several albums on 1 card. You can only fit 1 album on Vinyl, CD and R2R. The purpose of this system is sound quality. It's not intended as a rival of PC based storage and GUI's. If sound quality is #1 for you, look no further when it comes to a digital source.

The Mirus on the other hand can accept 1tb SD cards. So 8 cards to hold that massive collection. You just index in alphabetical order. Very easy to navigate to the album you need. It scrolls through the list very fast if you hold down the button.


To add to this, it's not essential that everything is stored on the SD cards. You can always just find what you want to hear on computer before your listening session and transfer it onto the card. Takes far less time than flipping records over and swapping them out each album.

 

[Blizzard]

Let me offer another thougth. I have rotated to many digital sources (CAPS USB, I2S server, Lynx AES/EBU, Modded Oppo with S/PDIF, Streaming) and found the differences to be relatively small. Never stumbled on a source / interface that knocked me off my sox and blew all else out of the water. The same is true for storage media /architecture. This learning curve has of course set me back thousands of $$$. If I had to do it all over again I would not fret nearly as much about my digital source, and save myself a bunch of trips to Fedex and a boatload of cash. OK - heresy alert. Shoot me.

What are you using for an I2S source? And which DAC is it going into? The interface also has to be well implemented. You can't for instance connect the coaxial SPDIF from an Apple TV up to your DAC and compare it to USB off a Aurender W20 and say USB is a better format based on that.

In my first post on this thread, I did mention that we are assuming each implementation is done the best way possible.

 

[BobShermanEsq]

You'll be pleased to know that my assessment of the sound quality of the SD card involved no measurements whatsoever and was fully sighted

How dare you!!! No measurements!!! How can you trust what you are hearing??? Music is to be measured not listened to...

 

[edorr]

What are you using for an I2S source? And which DAC is it going into? The interface also has to be well implemented. You can't for instance connect the coaxial SPDIF from an Apple TV up to your DAC and compare it to USB off a Aurender W20 and say USB is a better format based on that.

In my first post on this thread, I did mention that we are assuming each implementation is done the best way possible.

for USB I used CAPS with SotM
for AES/EBU lynx from dedicated server (also Empircal Audio USB converter in the past)
For streaming the PS Audio bridge
For I2S the Pink Faun card with AV Streamer (their Sota server)
For Coax the Vanity Card in modded Oppo (with Linear PS).

All pretty decent hardware, although no doubt I could have spend more on a five figure server like aurender.

I have used differend DACs in the past, but am now using a stack of 3 x PS audio Direcstream for MCH / 2 channel.

 

[BobShermanEsq]

What are you using for an I2S source? And which DAC is it going into? The interface also has to be well implemented. You can't for instance connect the coaxial SPDIF from an Apple TV up to your DAC and compare it to USB off a Aurender W20 and say USB is a better format based on that.

In my first post on this thread, I did mention that we are assuming each implementation is done the best way possible.

I believe others are aware of what they are doing and are not using Bose as you are. You seem to put everything in absolutes. These are your OPINIONS not facts. Maybe it would be nicer if you state them as such.

 

[BobShermanEsq]

Let me offer another thougth. I have rotated to many digital sources (CAPS USB, I2S server, Lynx AES/EBU, Modded Oppo with S/PDIF, Streaming) and found the differences to be relatively small. Never stumbled on a source / interface that knocked me off my sox and blew all else out of the water. The same is true for storage media /architecture. This learning curve has of course set me back thousands of $$$. If I had to do it all over again I would not fret nearly as much about my digital source, and save myself a bunch of trips to Fedex and a boatload of cash. OK - heresy alert. Shoot me.

Very sensible and a realistic practical assessment. Yes there can be differences, but really how much and how will this actually matter. Kal's point is valid also.

 

[Blizzard]

for USB I used CAPS with SotM
for AES/EBU lynx from dedicated server (also Empircal Audio USB converter in the past)
For streaming the PS Audio bridge
For I2S the Pink Faun card with AV Streamer (their Sota server)
For Coax the Vanity Card in modded Oppo (with Linear PS).

All pretty decent hardware, although no doubt I could have spend more on a five figure server like aurender.

I have used differend DACs in the past, but am now using a stack of 3 x PS audio Direcstream for MCH / 2 channel.

Right on. So now your using the Lynx AES16 via AES/EBU to sync the 3 Directstream's?

How does the Lynx directly compare with the Pink faun via I2S?

I hear the I2S from a Sonore Signature Rendu sounds killer into a Directstream.

 

[edorr]

Right on. So now your using the Lynx AES16 via AES/EBU to sync the 3 Directstream's?

How does the Lynx directly compare with the Pink faun via I2S?

I hear the I2S from a Sonore Signature Rendu sounds killer into a Directstream.

No. I sold the Lynx server and run the Pink Faun I2S (which is multi channel) into the Directstreams. I convinced myself it was worth the $$$ but can't vouch for being able to pick a clear winner in a double blind shootout - which was the whole point of my earlier post.

 

[microstrip]

It seems that some knowledgeable people still believe that USB is the way to go for consumer products : http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/sonoma-series-merlot-dac-and-syrah-music-server-from-playback-designs/

Playback Designs is launching a new series of components under the Sonoma name—in reference to the eponymous pro audio DSD workstations—and the first two introductions are the Merlot DAC and the Syrah Music Server. Naturally, they borrow their names from wine grapes—a nod to the wonderful (if somewhat counterintuitive) symmetry linking the enjoyment of good wines with the joy and awareness derived from profound musical experiences. Driving this audiophile/oenophile point home further, each product is shipped with a bottle of wine from a high-quality private winery.

The Merlot DAC is a state-of-the-art D/A converter with AES/SPDIF/USB/PLink digital inputs that support any sample rate and format up to quad DSD. Its discrete architecture is software upgradeable for future Playback Designs updates. In addition to balanced and unbalanced line-level analog outputs, there’s also a headphone output on the front panel with discrete volume control. An easy-to-use recording software application allows the creation of wave or DFF/DSF files on a computer from digital sources connected to Merlot.

The Syrah Music Server is the companion product to the Merlot DAC. It provides internal storage, but can be connected to external storage and networks. The Syrah supports DLNA streaming, rips CDs automatically from an external drive, and offers extensive metadata capabilities. Able to be controlled via iPad/Android tablets, it supports any file format and native sample rate, and connects to Merlot via USB for native file playback.

 

[Blizzard]

No. I sold the Lynx server and run the Pink Faun I2S (which is multi channel) into the Directstreams. I convinced myself it was worth the $$$ but can't vouch for being able to pick a clear winner in a double blind shootout - which was the whole point of my earlier post.

How does the Pink Faun handle clock sync between the 3 DACs?

 

[Blizzard]

It seems that some knowledgeable people still believe that USB is the way to go for consumer products : http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/sonoma-series-merlot-dac-and-syrah-music-server-from-playback-designs/

Playback Designs is launching a new series of components under the Sonoma name—in reference to the eponymous pro audio DSD workstations—and the first two introductions are the Merlot DAC and the Syrah Music Server. Naturally, they borrow their names from wine grapes—a nod to the wonderful (if somewhat counterintuitive) symmetry linking the enjoyment of good wines with the joy and awareness derived from profound musical experiences. Driving this audiophile/oenophile point home further, each product is shipped with a bottle of wine from a high-quality private winery.




The Merlot DAC is a state-of-the-art D/A converter with AES/SPDIF/USB/PLink digital inputs that support any sample rate and format up to quad DSD. Its discrete architecture is software upgradeable for future Playback Designs updates. In addition to balanced and unbalanced line-level analog outputs, there’s also a headphone output on the front panel with discrete volume control. An easy-to-use recording software application allows the creation of wave or DFF/DSF files on a computer from digital sources connected to Merlot.

The Syrah Music Server is the companion product to the Merlot DAC. It provides internal storage, but can be connected to external storage and networks. The Syrah supports DLNA streaming, rips CDs automatically from an external drive, and offers extensive metadata capabilities. Able to be controlled via iPad/Android tablets, it supports any file format and native sample rate, and connects to Merlot via USB for native file playback.

It would be nice to see more details in this. Seems odd they wouldn't implement their flagship Plink interface onto the server. But they could just be putting a product out that fills a hole in their lineup. Since most people don't care about interfaces anyways, it likely wouldn't affect sales either way.

 

[edorr]

How does the Pink Faun handle clock sync between the 3 DACs?

It does not handle clock sync. The three DACs are asynchronous and run on their own clock individually. However, the designer of the Directstream (Ted Smith) has made some changes in the firmware that effectively eliminate any potential issues with clock drift in a MCH application (he us using multiple Directstreams in a MCH setup himself as well).

 

[Blizzard]

It does not handle clock sync. The three DACs are asynchronous and run on their own clock individually. However, the designer of the Directstream (Ted Smith) has made some changes in the firmware that effectively eliminate any potential issues with clock drift in a MCH application (he us using multiple Directstreams in a MCH setup himself as well).

Still without master clock sync you won't have absolute timing accuracy from channel to channel. Maybe acceptable for home theatre, but not for a multiway active speaker. I've already been down this path with 2 Mirus's. I had the HDMI ports on the back custom remapped to accept I2S over LVDS. But then it was determined that without master clock sync, perfect timing is impossible. This is where the grandmaster clocking system PTP-IEEE1588 shines.

 

[edorr]

Still without master clock sync you won't have absolute timing accuracy from channel to channel. Maybe acceptable for home theatre, but not for a multiway active speaker. I've already been down this path with 2 Mirus's. I had the HDMI ports on the back custom remapped to accept I2S over LVDS. But then it was determined that without master clock sync, perfect timing is impossible. This is where the grandmaster clocking system PTP-IEEE1588 shines.

Maybe for driving active speakers this would be an issue. For MCH music (including SACD) is works just fine and any (theoretical or real) timing issues are well outside the audible range.

 

[Blizzard]

Maybe for driving active speakers this would be an issue. For MCH music (including SACD) is works just fine and any (theoretical or real) timing issues are well outside the audible range.

Anyways it's awesome the Directstream as that I2S port. Down the road if a new interface ever pops up that allows clock sync between multiple devices over I2S HDMI, the FPGA can always be remapped to send Mclk out via the port to assign one of the unit's mclk's as grandmaster for the system. The other units can be remapped as slaves and syncs could be maintained via the PTPIE1588 protocol.

The I2S gives a portal direct into the DAC's FPGA. No other interface is capable of this. So even if the sound quality of USB at this point was identical, having that port for those reasons alone is invaluable.

 

[edorr]

Anyways it's awesome the Directstream as that I2S port. Down the road if a new interface ever pops up that allows clock sync between multiple devices over I2S HDMI, the FPGA can always be remapped to send Mclk out via the port to assign one of the unit's mclk's as grandmaster for the system. The other units can be remapped as slaves and syncs could be maintained via the PTPIE1588 protocol.

The I2S gives a portal direct into the DAC's FPGA. No other interface is capable of this. So even if the sound quality of USB at this point was identical, having that port for those reasons alone is invaluable.

This would require master / slaving the DS Dacs, like playback designs and Mytek is cable off. PS audio does not support this and probably never will. More promising approack would be to build a MCH version of the DS, much like the exasound.

 

[Blizzard]

This would require master / slaving the DS Dacs, like playback designs and Mytek is cable off. PS audio does not support this and probably never will. More promising approack would be to build a MCH version of the DS, much like the exasound.

Yes a different multichannel DAC where all channels shared the same master would be best. I'm just talking about what's possible with what you have already since it has that port. But yes it would take remapping the FPGA for support.