Natural Sound

[tima]

I can understand ML2 and ML3 being a strong reason to try the hybrid, but not the other way round

Perhaps.

You need to understand that several of my choices followed my equipment reviews for TAB -- there (and at SoundStage) I was given assignments about what to cover. I felt I needed to have equipment suited to those assignments and to get new assignments. When I started reviewing in 2004 I had Conrad Johnson. I reviewed the OTL Atma-Sphere M60 which I really liked and bought their MA-1 and MP-1. I was 'given' (encouraged) the opportunity to have Wilson speakers and bought the original Sasha W/P (an upgrade to me) which I used with autoformers on the MA-1. Not an ideal match, but it worked for my purposes.


[You can see an autoformer at the back of the lefthand Sasha and a hint of the MA-1 on the righthand speaker. There's the Ref 5, the MP-1 and an Ayre CD player and a Teres turntable with SME V. There's a CJ PV-8 on the window ledge though used their 16LS pre. Not my current house.]

Then came a time when I had a bunch of equipment kinda stacked up for listening. I was given the Lamm M1.2 to review. I was also loaned the ARC Refernce 250 monos by Shunyata Grant. The Atma MP-1 and Lamm M1.2 had an XLR incompatibility so I needed a different preamp. I bought an ARC Ref 5 linestage. Toward the end of the M1.2 review period the Alexia 1 arrived for review -- a more suitable match. I bought the M1.2s, gave back the 250 monos and sold the Atma-Sphere gear. It was a substantial transition and, as a fan of Wilson and Lamm, my editor was happy . So the M1.2 came first and that's why.

I followed the Alexia 1 review with an Alexia 2 review (thanks to owning a suitable amp) I gave that to PF when they hired me. THEN I learned about horns (with your help and others) and made the switch to JBL and eventually to the ML2. The M1.2 works well with the JBLs as you acknowledged (without endorsing) from some of my videos. I have a higher opinion of it than you and that's okay.

Audiophile madness happens in different ways to different people.

 

[bonzo75]

I don’t disagree. I can see why things happen, whether your Lamm choices or Ron’s continuing box swaps.

Problem is how they are justified or if a component is deified. In this case it wasn’t just about you, but a mix of on this thread Amir making it sound as if it is mother’s milk, or the part which Hopkins quoted about special research, and so on.

I have nothing against Ron’s box swaps either, except where he comes in to deny he is a swapper

 

[Amir]

Perhaps.

You need to understand that several of my choices followed my equipment reviews for TAB -- there (and at SoundStage) I was given assignments about what to cover. I felt I needed to have equipment suited to those assignments and to get new assignments. When I started reviewing in 2004 I had Conrad Johnson. I reviewed the OTL Atma-Sphere M60 which I really liked and bought their MA-1 and MP-1. I was 'given' (encouraged) the opportunity to have Wilson speakers and bought the original Sasha W/P (an upgrade to me) which I used with autoformers on the MA-1. Not an ideal match, but it worked for my purposes.

View attachment 163338
[You can see an autoformer at the back of the lefthand Sasha and a hint of the MA-1 on the righthand speaker. There's the Ref 5, the MP-1 and an Ayre CD player and a Teres turntable with SME V. There's a CJ PV-8 on the window ledge though used their 16LS pre. Not my current house.]

Then came a time when I had a bunch of equipment kinda stacked up for listening. I was given the Lamm M1.2 to review. I was also loaned the ARC Refernce 250 monos by Shunyata Grant. The Atma MP-1 and Lamm M1.2 had an XLR incompatibility so I needed a different preamp. I bought an ARC Ref 5 linestage. Toward the end of the M1.2 review period the Alexia 1 arrived for review -- a more suitable match. I bought the M1.2s, gave back the 250 monos and sold the Atma-Sphere gear. It was a substantial transition and, as a fan of Wilson and Lamm, my editor was happy . So the M1.2 came first and that's why.

I followed the Alexia 1 review with an Alexia 2 review (thanks to owning a suitable amp) I gave that to PF when they hired me. THEN I learned about horns (with your help and others) and made the switch to JBL and eventually to the ML2. The M1.2 works well with the JBLs as you acknowledged (without endorsing) from some of my videos. I have a higher opinion of it than you and that's okay.

Audiophile madness happens in different ways to different people.

Thank you for sharing nice photo, lovely room and setup

 

[Amir]

I don’t disagree. I can see why things happen, whether your Lamm choices or Ron’s continuing box swaps.

Problem is how they are justified or if a component is deified. In this case it wasn’t just about you, but a mix of on this thread Amir making it sound as if it is mother’s milk, or the part which Hopkins quoted about special research, and so on.

I have nothing against Ron’s box swaps either, except where he comes in to deny he is a swapper

Kedar, I am fan of four tube amplifiers:

- Kondo Japan

(Kevin designer of Living Voice used Kondo 300B in munich 2014)

- Lamm

(David Karmeli likes Lamm and used Lamm in many shows)

- Audionote UK

(Audio Federation Mike is distributor of AN UK)

- Audiopax

(Jim Smith was distributor of Audiopax many years)


kondo is different to Lamm and all 4 amplifiers are different.

you know Lamm is good and I never said Lamm designed by god. I am also fan of ASR Emitter, Vitus, Robert Koda, TAD, Riviera Labs, Dartzeel, Neodio …

I agree with Brad that Lamm theory or it is better to say Lamm audio thinking is very good.

Maybe there are many good SET amplifiers that I do not know.

I think Kondo is King, High quality parts and beautiful sound.

 

[bonzo75]

Kedar, I am fan of four tube amplifiers:

- Kondo Japan

(Kevin designer of Living Voice used Kondo 300B in munich 2014)

- Lamm

(David Karmeli likes Lamm and used Lamm in many shows)

- Audionote UK

(Audio Federation Mike is distributor of AN UK)

- Audiopax

(Jim Smith was distributor of Audiopax many years)


kondo is different to Lamm and all 4 amplifiers are different.

you know Lamm is good and I never said Lamm designed by god. I am also fan of ASR Emitter, Vitus, Robert Koda, TAD, Riviera Labs, Dartzeel, Neodio …

I agree with Brad that Lamm theory or it is better to say Lamm audio thinking is very good.

Maybe there are many good SET amplifiers that I do not know.

I think Kondo is King, High quality parts and beautiful sound.

A few months ago you said you had never heard the Lamm. Have you heard it properly now

 

[Amir]

A few months ago you said you had never heard the Lamm. Have you heard it properly now

No

 

[PeterA]

Tim reminded me of this interesting post from Ralph discussing the advantages of a good SET and proper speaker matching. Post #32:

Single-Ended Triode (SET) Amplifier Revolution of the 1990s. Did it really happen? Was it Successful?

The rediscovery of the SET , DHT and horn speakers outside Japan is usually associated with Jean Hiraga in Paris - I had the pleasure of listening about them from some one who participated in these sessions in the middle 80's. For an extremely interesting reading on the subject see this series...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[Al M.]

Tim reminded me of this interesting post from Ralph discussing the advantages of a good SET and proper speaker matching. Post #32:

Single-Ended Triode (SET) Amplifier Revolution of the 1990s. Did it really happen? Was it Successful?

The rediscovery of the SET , DHT and horn speakers outside Japan is usually associated with Jean Hiraga in Paris - I had the pleasure of listening about them from some one who participated in these sessions in the middle 80's. For an extremely interesting reading on the subject see this series...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Interestingly, this post is only about SETs vs solid state amps. It is not about SETs vs push-pull tube amps. But we already know Ralph's opinions about the latter comparison, regardless if one agrees or not.

 

[bonzo75]

No

Without hearing it you want to claim it is in a few of the best, or as you claimed it has the best bass on the sets amp thread, is exactly what I mean by deification.

All I am asking for is just report your experiences of how it stacks up to other similar amps. Not very difficult.

 

[Amir]

Without hearing it you want to claim it is in a few of the best, or as you claimed it has the best bass on the sets amp thread, is exactly what I mean by deification.

All I am asking for is just report your experiences of how it stacks up to other similar amps. Not very difficult.

Yes it is not impossible to find good amplifier even without listening, When experts (like David, Romy, …) believe Lamm SET is very good with very good bass then It is very clear that Lamm is very special.

For the same reason I do not care what non-expert audiophiles like you think about Lamm.

Everyone who visited David knows his experience is more than many audiophiles but I do not know why you try to ignore his experience.

 

[tima]

Tim reminded me of this interesting post from Ralph discussing the advantages of a good SET and proper speaker matching. Post #32:

Single-Ended Triode (SET) Amplifier Revolution of the 1990s. Did it really happen? Was it Successful?

The rediscovery of the SET , DHT and horn speakers outside Japan is usually associated with Jean Hiraga in Paris - I had the pleasure of listening about them from some one who participated in these sessions in the middle 80's. For an extremely interesting reading on the subject see this series...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Makes for an interesting contrast between 2021 and now. I think there is more going here than technical differences.

 

[PeterA]

Makes for an interesting contrast between 2021 and now. I think there is more going here than technical differences.

One difference is more SET/horn systems and videos on WBF

 

[bonzo75]

Yes it is not impossible to find good amplifier even without listening, When experts (like David, Romy, …) believe Lamm SET is very good with very good bass then It is very clear that Lamm is very special.

For the same reason I do not care what non-expert audiophiles like you think about Lamm.

Everyone who visited David knows his experience is more than many audiophiles but I do not know why you try to ignore his experience.

That’s your take, someone has experience, you don’t, so keep posting about it. Exact opposite of how I want the hobby to be, so dealers and reviewers can sell you expensive gear without you having any clue.

 

[jeff1225]

Yes it is not impossible to find good amplifier even without listening, When experts (like David, Romy, …) believe Lamm SET is very good with very good bass then It is very clear that Lamm is very special.

For the same reason I do not care what non-expert audiophiles like you think about Lamm.

Everyone who visited David knows his experience is more than many audiophiles but I do not know why you try to ignore his experience.

What makes Rommy an expert over Kadar? They both have websites.

 

[morricab]

What makes Rommy an expert over Kadar? They both have websites.

Romy has at least done all kinds of stuff himself with audio...including having custom amps being made etc. Maybe he is not an expert in the conventional sense of the word, as he is I guess self-taught, but he has had the gumption to get out there and do it and report what he finds.

 

[PeterA]

What makes Rommy an expert over Kadar? They both have websites.

They both have very strong opinions. I don’t really know what qualifies one as an expert to Amir. I do appreciate that Romy has his own system and works diligently to improve it. This kind of practice in my experience leads to greater learning. I also respect Romy‘s constant introspection, questioning, and commentary. He is always thinking about audio and the effect on the listener, whether one agrees with his opinions or not. Kedar seems to have formed his opinions and enjoys sharing them with others. I do enjoy Kedar’s music recommendations and his frequent video postings. I would like to see a video of Romy’s system.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

What makes Rommy an expert over Kadar? They both have websites.

Romy has at least done all kinds of stuff himself with audio...including having custom amps being made etc. Maybe he is not an expert in the conventional sense of the word, as he is I guess self-taught, but he has had the gumption to get out there and do it and report what he finds.

i think the hobby is advanced by both, we are lucky to have them. they are both givers, generously contributing much rich information and are resources that continue to have value. why diminish either? they both have more work to do. i've had my 'The Cat' conflicts over the years but have much respect for the passion and vast experience.

too bad some have to take sides and get negative. or push semi-infallibility narratives that become polarizing. this is a subjective hobby. they are guys with opinions.

 

[PeterA]

i think the hobby is advanced by both, we are lucky to have them. they are both givers, generously contributing much rich information and are resources that continue to have value. why diminish either? they both have more work to do. i've had my 'The Cat' conflicts over the years but have much respect for the passion and vast experience.

too bad some have to take sides and get negative. or push semi-infallibility narratives that become polarizing. this is a subjective hobby. they are guys with opinions.

Mike, I agree that they both have opinions and sharing them is good for the hobby or for anyone who’s interested in reading them. I don’t see people pitting one against the other and creating conflict. I think the question was what makes one an expert more than the other to Amir. Perhaps Amir will respond to that.

 

[bonzo75]

Romy has at least done all kinds of stuff himself with audio...including having custom amps being made etc. Maybe he is not an expert in the conventional sense of the word, as he is I guess self-taught, but he has had the gumption to get out there and do it and report what he finds.

Even you have your own system, why do your videos sing so bad, why do you think state of the art systems can’t play orchestra, and why is your technical knowledge so poor that you think AS2000 and Horning TT were similar design because you just saw metal?

 

[bonzo75]

What makes Rommy an expert over Kadar? They both have websites.

He didn’t care, he wants to show case himself as a data point and to get credibility for himself he has to build credibility for some person to quote. It is the believe God and I am the messenger so believe me too style. He doesn’t want to do the work of listening himself.