That could explain why you found that “The sound does not change when I turn wi-fi off”.
Best audiophile switch
- Thread starter Frankie67
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This may have been covered earlier but if so I couldn't find it; has anyone directly compared a SwitchX/WifiX to a NA Tempus with or without a Muon?
Hello, I'm new here, but I've been reading along for some time. I'd like to add another switch manufacturer to the mix. Paradin Audio produces everything itself and uses granite for the housing. I have the Momento and the Argento in my system, and these two products have given my system a musical integrity that I've never experienced before. Thanks to the isolator and the switch, the music becomes more analog, everything is better separated than I have experienced with other switches and isolators. The switch was presented in Mono and Stereo the other day.
Here is a link: https://www.monoandstereo.com/paradin-audio-momento-ethernet-switch/
Paradin Audio will be exhibiting this year in Hamburg at the Nord Deutschen Hifitage at the Avantgarde-Acoustic booth. Best regards
Here is a link: https://www.monoandstereo.com/paradin-audio-momento-ethernet-switch/
Paradin Audio will be exhibiting this year in Hamburg at the Nord Deutschen Hifitage at the Avantgarde-Acoustic booth. Best regards
Thanks for sharing! Where did you purchase them?
Post in thread 'Best audiophile switch'
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/best-audiophile-switch.38881/post-1067547
I believe too many comparisons between audiophile switches just treat them as different‑quality ‘boxes’, but in reality we should consider the topology and philosophy behind them. For example, with something like SwitchX/WifiX you’re not simply getting a ‘better switch’ but you’re building a separate, isolated audio‑only sub‑network (often with its own WiFi bridge). That removes all broadcast/multicast/house‑LAN traffic from the audio path.
On the other hand, a high‑end wired switch like Tempus (especially when combined with a Muon or Muon‑Pro noise filter) keeps you on your main LAN, but emphasizes signal‑path integrity: clean power, low‑noise design, good clocking, shielding. All to optimize electrical and digital signal quality.
So besides the real question “which switch is better?” it can be “which topology/approach suits your system and where do you expect noise or interference to come from?” I’d be curious what others think, isolation vs refinement, and in which situations each makes sense.
...I agree @Di-fi
Because my inability to manage a lot of the IT-related/network infrastructure myself, I read a lot, understand as best as I can, and make decisions based on that...as well as a level of trust in various manufacturers' info.
I tried a v-lan some years ago with that EdgeX device, recommended and well regarded. What a nightmare. Gave up. IMO that is NOT user friendly.
I used some daisy-chained Ciscos, later adding a modded Buffalo switch, and various USB or LAN filters. They all worked and it was incremental improvement up the ladder. One could stop anywhere along the way.
But when fiber came to the neighborhood, I jumped in.
Dedicated fiber to audio room. Everything else on copper from a different ISP.
For me, that's an UberLan! No traffic management, switch layer negotiation research, buffer settings, etc., etc.
Then Taiko came out with network gear, and I added a switch/DCD. Later the router.
I recognize this is not a viable solution for all, but to your point: depending upon where I was, my knowledge/ability level, budget, new product development, I could make various choices that were all improvements at the time, based on my topology and usage.
Frankly, I think there are currently excellent options in the marketplace for improved network/streaming infrastructure. When we had 50 dollar Cisco 2960s to explore, we did. But smart guys found a market and used their knowledge to create new solutions. Pick a strategy that works for you...which is kind of what you and others are getting at. Cheers.
Because my inability to manage a lot of the IT-related/network infrastructure myself, I read a lot, understand as best as I can, and make decisions based on that...as well as a level of trust in various manufacturers' info.
I tried a v-lan some years ago with that EdgeX device, recommended and well regarded. What a nightmare. Gave up. IMO that is NOT user friendly.
I used some daisy-chained Ciscos, later adding a modded Buffalo switch, and various USB or LAN filters. They all worked and it was incremental improvement up the ladder. One could stop anywhere along the way.
But when fiber came to the neighborhood, I jumped in.
Dedicated fiber to audio room. Everything else on copper from a different ISP.
For me, that's an UberLan! No traffic management, switch layer negotiation research, buffer settings, etc., etc.
Then Taiko came out with network gear, and I added a switch/DCD. Later the router.
I recognize this is not a viable solution for all, but to your point: depending upon where I was, my knowledge/ability level, budget, new product development, I could make various choices that were all improvements at the time, based on my topology and usage.
Frankly, I think there are currently excellent options in the marketplace for improved network/streaming infrastructure. When we had 50 dollar Cisco 2960s to explore, we did. But smart guys found a market and used their knowledge to create new solutions. Pick a strategy that works for you...which is kind of what you and others are getting at. Cheers.
The two posts above are much appreciated and well put. Currently I run copper from my router to a cheap but (so far) reliable StarTech converter, about 40 feet of fiber to another StarTech then an Aardvark Link to my NUC server. The Link, which is a filter, made a small but audible improvement. So my thought now is to replace one of the StarTechs with either a Switch X or Tempus, both of which will do the conversion, and try the Link from either to the server. I would add the Wifi X to the Switch since it's necessary for control with my iPad. And, I really like the idea of the independent network it provides. I would also add the Muon Pro to the Tempus to get the max filtering effect. Those are my choices; fiber conversion, some filtering and an isolated network with the Switch X / Wifi X or what seems to be recognized as very top quality filtering and fiber conversion with the Tempus/Muon. I should add I would remove the Link if using the Muon. I'm hoping either approach will be a big step up over what I currently have. Any further thoughts?
...removing/replacing the StarTek should add value, IMO. It might also be interesting to try the system with copper instead of fiber.
I had a 35' fiber run for a couple of years, as I thought the space the copper was run through might be a cosmic EMI soupbowl, but later, removing the various converters and swapping back to copper was better, I thought.
I was not able to measure the environment, so optical seemed a best practice. It ended up not mattering here. Would measurements predicted that? Not sure. Have fun!
I had a 35' fiber run for a couple of years, as I thought the space the copper was run through might be a cosmic EMI soupbowl, but later, removing the various converters and swapping back to copper was better, I thought.
I was not able to measure the environment, so optical seemed a best practice. It ended up not mattering here. Would measurements predicted that? Not sure. Have fun!
I have a Draytek router and that had great software for configuring VLANs and that really made a difference. I now have a dedicated vlan for audio which goes out of one port on my router and the rest of the house traffic is in the other. Very noticeable upgrade, event better that it was free just reading an online guide on the Draytek website. So while you have now a much better dedicated lan, for us mere mortals vlans are worth exploring. As part of the overall network setup as I there does not seem to be any silver bullets. More you need a full magazine of bullets aimed at a steaming system.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. This is exactly the kind of experience I was hoping would show up in the thread. Your story really shows why it makes sense to look at the bigger picture instead of only comparing boxes. I know this touches a bit more on the wider setup, but only because the topology behind these devices makes such a big difference.
What you described also shows how each step in a system often uses a different network approach. These are not just upgrades. They are different ways of shaping the whole network, and that matters a lot more than people sometimes expect.
Choose the solution that fits your own situation, instead of assuming that one or two single boxes are always the answer.
Yesterday I posted to the router thread that I believed I had successfully created an isolated audio VLAN. I deleted the post because I found that checking the isolate option doesn’t actually isolate the VLAN from the default network. Grrr.
I believe I succeeded today by also adding firewall rules that drop “LAN in” traffic from each segment to the other. I’m certain now that it’s isolated. I have been trying to punch open a hole that at least allows my NAS to be accessed from the audio VLAN. So effing frustrating as nothing seems to work as it should - but clearly the fault is with my understanding. Definitely not something that novices should think of taking on.
Tonight I will do some listening comparisons to see if it’s worth the hassle. It looks like I should be able to A/B isolation by toggling on/off the rules.
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I'm definitely a novice and don't want any part of that process. After running Fing this morning I found I have twelve devices running on my LAN, only one of which was connected to my audio system--my server. So that pretty much did it for my decision between the Tempus and Switch X. I'll be ordering the Switch X/ Wifi X combo next week. Down the road I may give the Muon or the new Muon2 a try when it's available.
As I recently mentioned on one of these threads, I have over 60 devices on my home network as I have many IoT devices. So if VLAN is going to v be worth the effort, my network provides a good test case. The image below shows a Fing scan of the new audio VLAN.
I’m actually not really a novice when it comes to firewall configuration as I’ve had some say in their configuration at work. My challenge has been more with how to configure things in the Unifi controller. That software is generally super easy to use, but the new revamped policy section makes it more challenging as the help guides seem to all show screenshots from the previous configuration screens. Grrr.
I actually had it backwards. The screenshots I’ve been seeing in the help guides are based on UniFi’s zone-based firewall functionality, which isn’t available to me as I have an older cloud gateway. What I’ve read indicates that this new capability makes it easier to configure rules so I should probably upgrade to a current model.
To compare with and without isolation, all I needed to do was pause the firewall rule. The rule changes would take about a minute to get applied.
It wasn’t difficult to notice the improvements when the firewall rule was enabled (and the audio segment isolated). I would still have to say though that the improvements were subtle. I was reminded of my SFP shootouts a number of years ago. When I paused the rule (and removed the isolation), I was still left impressed with how great my reference tracks sounded. Re-enabling the rule made things just a little better as it took an edge off, made things a bit more coherent, and slightly improved dimensionality. Most importantly though it made things a bit darker, but in a good way. That made what I was hearing a bit more believable.
What’s going to be interesting is hearing what further insights are revealed as I listen more with the rule enabled. I have a feeling there will be certain tracks where the reduced noise benefits the music more. I’ll report back after spending some more time listening.
I have to admit I’m more curious about the Muon Pro now. Maybe it’s effective enough that I won’t want to deal with the hassle of a separate VLAN.
The point isn’t to redirect the thread away from switches. It’s the opposite: to help people get the very best out of the switch they already invested in.
What I really want to get across is that none of this is meant as “you must do X.” It’s more an encouragement to experiment. Kenny’s example shows how even a simple network change can reveal things you didn’t know were being masked.
In my own experience, it’s rarely a single “magic” tweak. More often, it’s a combination of a few small adjustments, like cleaner upstream power for the router, router settings for an audio subnet, swapping network cables, or using a quieter access point (2.4 vs 5 GHz, better LPS, upgraded DC cable) that together stop being subtle. Once the noise floor drops enough, the improvements add up in a way you can’t un-hear.
That’s why I think it’s worth trying some form of separation, even if it’s just a simple step like Kenny’s firewall rule. It doesn’t have to be extreme or expensive to show results. Sometimes even a very basic isolation measure is enough to let the system “breathe” and make the music feel more natural, more relaxed, or just more believable.
Everyone’s setup is different, and what works depends on the rest of your chain, your room, your streamer, and what kind of noise you’re dealing with. The nice thing about network changes is that many of them are reversible. You can switch them on and off, compare, and decide for yourself.
What I really want to get across is that none of this is meant as “you must do X.” It’s more an encouragement to experiment. Kenny’s example shows how even a simple network change can reveal things you didn’t know were being masked.
In my own experience, it’s rarely a single “magic” tweak. More often, it’s a combination of a few small adjustments, like cleaner upstream power for the router, router settings for an audio subnet, swapping network cables, or using a quieter access point (2.4 vs 5 GHz, better LPS, upgraded DC cable) that together stop being subtle. Once the noise floor drops enough, the improvements add up in a way you can’t un-hear.
That’s why I think it’s worth trying some form of separation, even if it’s just a simple step like Kenny’s firewall rule. It doesn’t have to be extreme or expensive to show results. Sometimes even a very basic isolation measure is enough to let the system “breathe” and make the music feel more natural, more relaxed, or just more believable.
Everyone’s setup is different, and what works depends on the rest of your chain, your room, your streamer, and what kind of noise you’re dealing with. The nice thing about network changes is that many of them are reversible. You can switch them on and off, compare, and decide for yourself.
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Lately, I’ve ended up streaming almost exclusively instead of managing local files, so there’s no “door” or extra NAS needed. My setup now includes a 4G router with Wi‑Fi switched off and a Farad3 power supply, an audio subnet containing only audio/network devices with fixed IP addresses, a low-noise access point on 2.4 GHz (with unnecessary services disabled, low transmission power, and connected to the switch), and two excellent Veridion Ethernet cables running from the router to the switch and from the server/streamer to the switch.
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