THE HIFI FIVE ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION STREAMING LIVE ON YOUTUBE PREMIERING IN OCTOBER!

[Elliot G.]

In my opinion, it is your statement that is emotional and political, and talking about 430 million Americans or the Swiss nation is already a stretch for the group of enthusiasts that we form.

Sir you are entitled to your opinion and my point is you do not speak for your continent or your whole country.

 

[Król_Artur]

Sir you are entitled to your opinion and my point is you do not speak for your continent or your whole country.

Dear Sir, we are in complete agreement here; no one ever speaks on behalf of the entire nation. I have only presented my own observations.

 

[morricab]

without going to far down the rabbit hole our Industry and hobby has fallen in to the emotional response trap just like politics and almost everything else these days.
One persons feelings is not reality for all. One persons conspiracy theory is just that. The country of Switzerland didn't have a meeting to define Swiss sound!. Everyone of 430 million people in the USA didn't vote for big bass. Do different companies and designers make stuff that sounds different? Yes of course. Do they do this my nationality? LOL that's a load of crap'. I am sorry but every product made in Germany does not have a similar sound to every other European product. That is just insulting and not true at all. Just go to Munich or Vienna and listen, NOT Hear!
We stopped asking the real questions when the hobbyists overran the conversation. When everyone's emotional opinion became the truth. When experience, facts and research became un important because your feelings mattered more.
When people platform some guy with big opinions( Jay's video) and wants to blame everyone but himself for his mistakes and that every one else is a liar this is what we get.
As far as the show its fun to have different opinions and have a discussion. Dennis and I have nothing in common as far as audio. I did find parts of his article interesting but we never discussed them as we got sidetracked by hearing tests and flat earth theory

No but the Swiss did seem to converge on a general Swiss design aesthetic...except darTZeel, who must not have gotten the memo!.

What I have found is that people I know with demonstrably good hearing seem to start to converge and get similar sounding systems that tend to be on the more natural, less analytical end of the sonic spectrum. Even the few who still use SS amps, have gone to pure Class A amps fed with all tube source gear and tube preamps. I don't know anyone here in Switzerland or nearby that have all SS systems anymore...we all came from them though! This seems to be a peculiarly American thing...speaking as an American, FWIW. Sure there are plenty of SS products designed right here in Switzerland and Germany, but the hardcore audiophiles I know who live here don't actually own them...it seems they are more for export.

 

[Elliot G.]

What I have found is that people I know with demonstrably good hearing seem to start to converge and get similar sounding systems that tend to be on the more natural, less analytical end of the sonic spectrum

Moricab isn't that the idea of all hi fi. You are making my point.
Looks may vary due to cultural taste. Asia, and others like gold for example. I guess the Swiss like the modern silver computer chassis look , that's not audio that's fashion and style. Some like old school looks, sometimes looks are determined by design criteria.
I would hope everyone here wants great sound and that is why they are here but large sweeping generalizations and geographic bias to me is a bridge to far.

 

[morricab]

Moricab isn't that the idea of all hi fi. You are making my point.
Looks may vary due to cultural taste. Asia, and others like gold for example. I guess the Swiss like the modern silver computer chassis look , that's not audio that's fashion and style. Some like old school looks, sometimes looks are determined by design criteria.
I would hope everyone here wants great sound and that is why they are here but large sweeping generalizations and geographic bias to me is a bridge to far.

Which point is that exactly? From what I see on WBF and other forums there is little convergence. Even pure subjectivists like Jay have systems that sound unnatural to me as do many similar such systems. Does Jay or you have a good grasp on what live, unamplified music should sound like? I have no idea but I know it doesn’t match my conception of it.

 

[bonzo75]

No but the Swiss did seem to converge on a general Swiss design aesthetic...except darTZeel, who must not have gotten the memo!.

What I have found is that people I know with demonstrably good hearing seem to start to converge and get similar sounding systems that tend to be on the more natural, less analytical end of the sonic spectrum. Even the few who still use SS amps, have gone to pure Class A amps fed with all tube source gear and tube preamps. I don't know anyone here in Switzerland or nearby that have all SS systems anymore...we all came from them though! This seems to be a peculiarly American thing...speaking as an American, FWIW. Sure there are plenty of SS products designed right here in Switzerland and Germany, but the hardcore audiophiles I know who live here don't actually own them...it seems they are more for export.

This isn’t about hearing but about marketing and how the hobbie is viewed. SS, big tall boomy speakers are bought like boy’s status by some to post pics and RRP, while those wanting to listen to music yet enjoy the hobby gravitate to what allows them to listen naturally

 

[Elliot G.]

Which point is that exactly? From what I see on WBF and other forums there is little convergence. Even pure subjectivists like Jay have systems that sound unnatural to me as do many similar such systems. Does Jay or you have a good grasp on what live, unamplified music should sound like? I have no idea but I know it doesn’t match my conception of it.

Sorry to engage I forgot with whom I was conversing

 

[PeterA]

As a south Asian who studied in the US and lives in Europe (or just outside of EU), sound I like must be the most balanced.

A well balanced system presentation is a particular value. I think it can be achieved through specific gear selection and set up choices.

 

[marty]

I know a scientist in the pharma industry. He explained to me how they are directed by management to manipulate the data, lie to everyone, including themselves.

Sorry Rex. I take strong exception to that remark. I've been in the pharma industry and ran Discovery research for many years at one of the larger companies. I managed over 400 people and I don''t know a single individual I would characterize that way. If you manipulate preclinical or clinical trial data, you can or will go to jail for that. As my former CEO once told me, the only thing he wanted to make damn sure about is that his mother would not read about him in the paper for doing something illegal. Most folks who work for pharma are very solid, well-meaning quality individuals who take great pride in their work and it is both unfair and inappropriate to malign them with such a blanket statement.

 

[Kingrex]

Sorry Rex. I take strong exception to that remark. I've been in the pharma industry and ran Discovery research for many years at one of the larger companies. I managed over 400 people and I don''t know a single individual I would characterize that way. If you manipulate preclinical or clinical trial data, you can or will go to jail for that. As my former CEO once told me, the only thing he wanted to make damn sure about is that his mother would not read about him in the paper for doing something illegal. Most folks who work for pharma are very solid, well-meaning quality individuals who take great pride in their work and it is both unfair and inappropriate to malign them with such a blanket statement.

Not true Marty. The person who told me noted he would call out what he was seeing as potential side affects. He was directed to stick to measuring what he was supposed to be measuring. Don't go outside the box looking for potential issues. There are lies of commission and lies of omission.

Look how hard big pharma is fighting Tylenol can be dangerous to an unborn fetus.
Remember how good cigarettes were for you!!!!.

What I hear in private and read points to pharma and the FDA as a dirty business that has lost its direction when it comes to focusing on the public good over profits.

 

[morricab]

Sorry to engage I forgot with whom I was conversing

Yeah, I forgot for a moment who you are as well…

 

[hopkins]

If I may, the topics covered in episode 6 were too broad. « Can everything we hear be measured objectively ? » - do we need yet another discussion about this? I would focus on people’s personal experience rather than on theoretical discussions…

 

[Ron Resnick]

If I may, the topics covered in episode 6 were too broad. « Can everything we hear be measured objectively ? » - do we need yet another discussion about this? I would focus on people’s personal experience rather than on theoretical discussions…

Everybody wants to be a producer!

 

[hopkins]

Everybody wants to be a producer!

Everybody can use feedback

 

[Ron Resnick]

Everybody can use feedback

Yes! Thank you!

 

[pk_LA]

Not true Marty. The person who told me noted he would call out what he was seeing as potential side affects. He was directed to stick to measuring what he was supposed to be measuring. Don't go outside the box looking for potential issues. There are lies of commission and lies of omission.

Look how hard big pharma is fighting Tylenol can be dangerous to an unborn fetus.
Remember how good cigarettes were for you!!!!.

What I hear in private and read points to pharma and the FDA as a dirty business that has lost its direction when it comes to focusing on the public good over profits.

Very uninformed and also hearsay. Oh. And also irresponsible statements.

 

[pk_LA]

Everybody wants to be a producer!

Agree. And since you brought it up...you need a good producer

 

[Elliot G.]

Agree. And since you brought it up...you need a good producer

lol

 

[Kingrex]

Very uninformed and also hearsay. Oh. And also irresponsible statements.

Hearsay to you, horses mouth to me. I can't see why a friend would make up stories and lie about his day at work. But who cares right. As long as pharma is there to save you. The US is sickly as we don't eat well, work out, or take any responsibility for our lifestyle and actions. Most people have to really on the dirty industry to save them.
Oddly I was having coffee with another individual 2 days ago and he told me how his neuro surgeon told him he was his last patient. The surgeon was so fed up with the medical establishment placing profits above patients. He had enough and was getting out. I hear a lot of Horse speak. If you are open and listen, you will too.

 

[ctydwn]

Hearsay to you, horses mouth to me. I can't see why a friend would make up stories and lie about his day at work. But who cares right. As long as pharma is there to save you. The US is sickly as we don't eat well, work out, or take any responsibility for our lifestyle and actions. Most people have to really on the dirty industry to save them.
Oddly I was having coffee with another individual 2 days ago and he told me how his neuro surgeon told him he was his last patient. The surgeon was so fed up with the medical establishment placing profits above patients. He had enough and was getting out. I hear a lot of Horse speak. If you are open and listen, you will too.

wow man. u seem to have a real issue and enjoy casting blanket derogatory characterizations based on two interactions???, which also indict members here w no evidence - essentially character assassinations, that have nothing to do with audio. you are a professional audio guy looking for folks to trust in you and your horse speak? yikes. u sound a bit unhinged. steer clear.