How do you know when you are done?
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
I've corrected some of the rather bold and incorrect comments about vinyl over there. One common myth is there's less resolution near the runout grooves. I found I was easily able to record a 30KHz tone in that area and play it back using a Grado Gold cartridge. Also distortion of the media is much lower than they usually state. This is because so much feedback has to be used with the cutterhead. Ask Bruno Putzeys what 45dB of feedback can do for an amplifier... most of the 'distortion of the LP' occurs in playback and is wildly different depending on the arm, cartridge, how well they match, setup and loading if needed. The platter pad of the turntable affects distortion as well. So most of the studies you see are really just bad science and many of them were made in the 1960s before cartridges and tonearms were really figured out.
This is done to add some 3rd harmonic, which makes the presentation sound richer as that is the dominate distortion any properly functioning tape machine makes.
Depending on how avid you are to really hear a particular recording at its best might mean that even as a rabid digiphile you'd still have to own LPs and have a good quality turntable. This is simply because master tapes degrade over time so digital releases made from a master tape made 30-50 years ago aren't going to sound as lively and vivacious as they did when they were new! So the only way to really hear what that is about is to get the original LP pressing.
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The point about the treatment of artists is interesting. They don't get paid much per stream. I'd happily pay a bit more for my subscription if it went to them and not suits. On the other hand, I've discovered dozens of artists who I'd never known but now listen to regularly only because of streaming. I have bought vinyl published by these artists and would buy concert tickets if they were in my area. Without my Qobuz subscription I'd never have heard them.
I don't think many people go into record stores and buy music of artists they've never heard, much less buy tickets to live performances. So, streaming seemingly has some benefits for artists.
Finally, AI may soon prove to be the bigger threat. I was Rooning around for some new blues music a few nights ago and ran across "Etta Mae Hartwell." Beautiful music, a voice somewhere between Etta James and Nina Simone. I know my blues a bit-I'd never heard of her-so started looking for biographical details. Turns out "she" and her music are likely fictitious-generated by some guy in Turkey on his computer. Other AI music seems to have signs it is artificial, but Etta Mae fooled these old ears. Can you imagine what will be possible in a few years? I don't know how that will shake but its going to be quite a ride.
I don't think many people go into record stores and buy music of artists they've never heard, much less buy tickets to live performances. So, streaming seemingly has some benefits for artists.
Finally, AI may soon prove to be the bigger threat. I was Rooning around for some new blues music a few nights ago and ran across "Etta Mae Hartwell." Beautiful music, a voice somewhere between Etta James and Nina Simone. I know my blues a bit-I'd never heard of her-so started looking for biographical details. Turns out "she" and her music are likely fictitious-generated by some guy in Turkey on his computer. Other AI music seems to have signs it is artificial, but Etta Mae fooled these old ears. Can you imagine what will be possible in a few years? I don't know how that will shake but its going to be quite a ride.
A first pressing LP is good, but it depends on how many copies of the mother you have; there are significant sonic differences. The deadwax number (scratched ) provides a lot of useful information, mostly the pressing plant, recording engineer, and copy number. A or 1 is the first cut, which is the best quality. There are many websites about it, and it's become a science among collectors.
Yes, I've spent a lot of time looking at the lead out grooves on this account. Its much easier to sort out the older LPs in this regard, but in the context of the analog/digital thing that just reared its head again, the older LPs are where its most important.
I can't work that much when I sometimes see how much money A-cuts are sold for on eBay...lolThis trend has certainly made me work harder!
The day have only 24hours
Back in the halcyon days of vinyl, hanging at the record store was a great key to finding new music, for sure. Now, the streaming algorithms try, but it just isn't the same.
We'd even buy LPs based on their covers!
I love the scene in High Fidelity where Robs says, "I will now sell five copies of the "Three Eps" by the Beta Band."
Am I the only one who thinks this thread has drifted way off track? What’s the point of arguing about whether vinyl or digital is better or more accurate? Each is a fun way to enjoy music. Some like one more than the other, which is fine but it doesn’t mean that is the best option for everyone.
Elliot G.
Dealer - Bending Wave
there are three main threads and like a fungus they come back. Horns vs others , Tubes vs transistors and analog versus digital.
I can't believe people aren't truly ill from the SOS. I know I am . I don't care I got what I want and I don't feel the need to pontificate but alas that is not WBF these days.
Do you know how to get three audiophiles to agree? Didn't think so LOL
A tube amp driven horn system playing vinyl is the best. That is the OBJECTIVE TRUTH.
(At least that's what the subjective consensus of some of the loudest and most persistent voices on WBF seems to say. Do they speak for everyone? They sure would like to think so. Hehe, good luck with that.)
Sorry, but I disagree.
The thread is about, “How do you know when you are done?” Digital is only in its youth, per se. The advancements in the last 5 years alone have been staggering. More are sure to come.
Streaming is still in its infancy. Streaming companies aren’t even making a profit yet and (non-politically speaking) if certain countries begin adding tariffs (in the U.S. laws would need to change) to foreign downloads, artists, etc. it may not last. A 100% tariff on foreign films is already being floated.
Internet mechanical connections will improve as our Optical and Cat connections become extinct. So unless your streamer and DACs have expansion ports in them you may be purchasing again when the time comes …
So if streaming is your only medium you may never be done, at least not anywhere in the near future.
Many could stop now as they have enough LPs and CDs to last the remainder of their lives, and then some.
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If streaming is one's only medium, they have nothing to compare it to. How would they know whether or not to upgrade?
Streaming is not my only medium. I use LP's as well as physical digital. If I didn't have anything to compare streaming to, I would honestly be done. It is eerily close to physical digital in my rig, and thoroughly enjoyable for hours and hours on end with zero fatigue.
If streaming was my only medium, I would be perfectly fine with what I am hearing through it now....until my streamer became a heavy doorstop, hopefully a decade or so down the road.
Tom
Elliot G.
Dealer - Bending Wave
I for sure have no idea have no clue as to the future quality of streaming as we seem to uncover more and more ways to remove the noise and get much better sound. I am almost totally that way and have invested heavily into it while doing a lot of noise reduction this summer , both electrical, network, grounding and isolation. All of these made improvements in the playback and my enjoying it more and more. Will it get better? I always hope so as it is a very young source and although above my pay grade one hopes there is a lot more to come.
I do think the thread however was about when do old audiophiles put themselves out to gear pasture or shoot the cow maybe that too
There is still a lot of music that is not available on streaming services.
Respectfully, you took my statement out of its original context. While I did write, “So if streaming is your only medium you may never be done, at least not anywhere in the near future” the word “So” is very important as it refers to everything I wrote before it. You have to include it to understand what my statement above actually means. Essentially, streaming alone may not be the cure-all many think it is.
I’m glad you have some Vinyl. I agree with you that my digital is also “eerily close to physical digital in my rig, and thoroughly enjoyable for hours and hours on end with zero fatigue.” Though you stated it better, I said something similar above in another post. However, there are still some differences in SQ and so I still prefer my Vinyl over my digital. But as I wrote earlier I could sell my vinyl and live happily with my digital. However, that will only happen if my back and legs and heart and kidneys no longer allow me to make it to my TT.
Interesting. When I read this definition of "natural sound" it struck me as another way to describe "accurate sound". Seems Keats was correct (or maybe "accurate"):
"Beauty is truth, truth beauty,"—that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.
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