How do you know when you are done?

For the most part the resurgence is a result of hype, young lemmings follow each other and playing vinyl has become cool. They rarely own capable systems anyway and i see so many especially young girls selling of their complete Collection of shit music on the used market. They can not hear the difference anyway. This resurgence will pass, they are fickle customers.:rolleyes:
Maybe. This sounds a little snobby.

I'll treat happily with a smile any resurgence in vinyl for any reason.
 
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For the most part the resurgence is a result of hype, young lemmings follow each other and playing vinyl has become cool. They rarely own capable systems anyway and i see so many especially young girls selling of their complete Collection of shit music on the used market. They can not hear the difference anyway. This resurgence will pass, they are fickle customers.:rolleyes:

I disagree on the "for most part". Maybe some. Quite a few were ex-vinylists coming back to the fold -- people who sold off their record collections or their turntables and phonostages during early days of CDs.
 
on the KL Audio thread i responded to Ron's points about changing gear where he he responded to a @XV-1 post "Ron, just think of the turnover of your equipment in the last 18 months. :)


"
saying "But I'm not sure that one swap of three things and an additional third thing is a lot compared to many."


with this post........"10 years from now is when you can look back to say when stuff actually settled down and were set......for 3-4 years in a row. where changing is no longer a thought."


then @tima picked up on that and responded to my point....."It is an interesting phenomena -- how do you know when you're satisfied. How do you know when you're done? "

Ron said "I'll know it when I hear it.

i was going to respond to Tim on that thread, but thinking about it, seemed like it's an important enough subject to justify it's own thread so not to comingle it with the KL Audio thread.

how do you know when you are done? and what does done mean? done listening? done talking about changing? done changing? done major piece changing? or just dialed way back on your sense of pursuit? in my mind all those things are forms of being done.

personally i have made it known i'm sorta done and i've got life style changes going on which has changed my priorities considerably. does that mean i don't think about better sound? my answer right now March 14th, 8:28am PDT is i'm not sure exactly what it means. but for sure something has changed for me in terms of how i view my hifi/music hobby path. there are no pieces of gear on my mind to acquire. i'm not thinking about my next move. yet; listening and thinking about the hobby still burns brightly.

before i made the decision last summer to change my lifestyle i think i had already felt i was done. satisfied. investigated what i needed to. acquired the media i wanted to. flirted with some major changes, but realized i was just wanting change for change sake and pulled back from that spot and realized i had what i wanted already. i was in a place of contentment. where when i listened my heart was good. my boxes were checked.

i was hearing what i needed and wanted to hear and was/am happy. day after day after day. and being retired did not want to reinvent my hifi self to explore other approaches.

in my mind no doubt if something minor is presented to me that does move the system performance needle i'm still open to that, but nothing too big. i'm good. i'm done.

what does being done mean to others? where is that for you? what needs to happen, or not happen, for you to feel like you are done? and if so is it......."at a place of rest until the next push"....or...."done for now"......or........"done till you are not done"......or "really done forever"?

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I knew that I was "done", meaning I could be happy with my current components for the rest of my life, when the sound from very high end/expensive systems at dealers, shows, and colleague's homes, stopped sounding superior to what I was getting from my own system. I still enjoy going to listen to new gear, and I regularly hear systems which wouldn't fit in my small room that fill a large room with high quality sound. But it has been several years since I've heard any grouping of components that sounded better to me than my current system. I spent decades chasing that last measure of refinement, resolution, naturalness, etc. Several things ended that chase for me. Specifically: 1) the last round of modifications to my Pathos TT integrated by the late Bill Thalman, which included among other things adding Bybee Music Rails and Duelund Cast Pio Tinned Copper capacitors, 2) driver, wiring, crossover, and cabinet upgrades to my Bache Audio speakers by designer Greg Belman, and 3) serious attention to room acoustics including deploying DHDI ZR panels on the walls behind my speakers and listening position. A year or so ago my last attempt at a component upgrade sealed it for me. After nearly a decade of listening to the Modwright modified Marantz SA8005 sacd player (custom analogue tube output stage and separate tube rectified power supply) I "upgraded" to a PS Audio Perfect Wave SACD transport and top of the line Audio-GD DAC, not to improve the sound but because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to replace parts if necessary in the Marantz unit (Modwright will always service what they've modified). However I preferred the sound of the older tube SACD player so I bought a used modified unit as a backup and a used stock unit for parts and ditched the PS Audio/DAC combo. Note that putting a Wellfloat platform and Dalby Lignum Vitae feet under the Modwright-Marantz transport made an improvement equaling or exceeding a component upgrade. I will continue to experiment with tweaks just because it is fun, but the only thing that will get me to replace a component is if one fails and can't be repaired.
 
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I'll treat happily with a smile any resurgence in vinyl for any reason.
Why?
New vinyl is digitally recorded and mastered. So its not really vinyl. Just stream it, or bet a good transport.
A resurgence will cause more people to compete for a very limited supply of old AAA vinyl. They will play the old AAA vinyl with who knows how clean a record and how well cared for stylus. So they are reducing the life of the good old vinyl.
A resurgence of vinyl is a loss or reduction of good old vinyl for people that care about how the vinyl sounds.
 
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Why?
New vinyl is digitally recorded and mastered. So its not really vinyl. Just stream it, or bet a good transport.
A resurgence will cause more people to compete for a very limited supply of old AAA vinyl. They will play the old AAA vinyl with who knows how clean a record and how well cared for stylus. So they are reducing the life of the good old vinyl.
A resurgence of vinyl is a loss or reduction of good old vinyl for people that care about how the vinyl sounds.
Like feeding pearls to swine ! ;)
 
Why?
New vinyl is digitally recorded and mastered. So its not really vinyl. Just stream it, or bet a good transport.
A resurgence will cause more people to compete for a very limited supply of old AAA vinyl. They will play the old AAA vinyl with who knows how clean a record and how well cared for stylus. So they are reducing the life of the good old vinyl.
A resurgence of vinyl is a loss or reduction of good old vinyl for people that care about how the vinyl sounds.
My understanding is that these beginner vinyl newcomers buy both reissue classic rock along with the Taylor Swift and Travis Scott. this group is not chasing original pressings. what they do do is to fuel the the whole vinyl manufacturing momentum and make it more likely that the overall health of vinyl will carry on.

rock including classic rock is the biggest new vinyl seller.

my opinion is that interest in older pressings will be accompanied by awareness of proper vinyl care. more energy and cost should bring appreciation for good process. and that energy and interest will help fuel better vinyl products for all of us. so i agree with @Ron Resnick that we should only be happy about it.

i do think that this section of the vinyl resurgence could diminish over time. but i hope not.
 
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i think the data tells us that these beginner vinyl newcomers buy both reissue classic rock along with the Taylor Swift and Travis Scott. this group is not chasing original pressings. what they do do is to fuel the the whole vinyl manufacturing momentum and make it more likely that the overall health of vinyl will carry on.

rock including classic rock is the biggest new vinyl seller.

my opinion is that interest in older pressings will be accompanied by awareness of proper vinyl care. more energy and cost should bring appreciation for good process. and that energy and interest will help fuel better vinyl products for all of us. so i agree with @Ron Resnick that we should only be happy about it.

i do think that this vinyl resurgence could diminish over time. but i hope not.
What benefit does a DDA album carry over a CD or streamed album. Sonically that is.

A resurgence of vinyl has also dramatically increased the price of used vinyl. If your selling maybe that is ok. As a consumer, that is a negative.
 
Just when I think I was done, it's suggested I ground my Airblades, and I enter a new level of "done" that is at a whole other level compared to the previous level of "done", lol.
 
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With some exceptions, it's all digital sourced.
FWIW, the source file for an LP release is often different from that of one for digital release. It may not contain as much compression and DSP as the digital release as there's no intention to be played in a car. The LP producer that cares about the final product will often ask the recording engineer if there is a non-DSP version of the source file. This is one reason why the LP can sound better and have wider dynamic range. Its nothing to do with the format other than the requirement to be able to play nicely in a car.
Why?
New vinyl is digitally recorded and mastered.
See above.
 
What benefit does a DDA album carry over a CD or streamed album. Sonically that is.
there are so many variables in how music is consumed at the entry level that there is no way to generalize. for instance, many beginner vinyl enthusiasts might consume digital files on headphones, not even own a dac or cd player, but for their turntable might have speakers. and use it for communal listening. more an event not background. just as an example of how it might work.

turntables require an actual place to enjoy. that is a big issue.

agree that as audiophiles we assume optimization when trying to make use cases. but that approach does not apply to beginners. it misses the motivation.
A resurgence of vinyl has also dramatically increased the price of used vinyl. If your selling maybe that is ok. As a consumer, that is a negative.
i agree that the vinyl reawakening since the mid-90's has driven prices higher. but......i doubt prices of original pressings or scarce vinyl, driven by collectors and audiophiles, has much to do specifically with young beginner vinyl interest. they are different things only peripherally connected.
 
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FWIW, the source file for an LP release is often different from that of one for digital release. It may not contain as much compression and DSP as the digital release as there's no intention to be played in a car. The LP producer that cares about the final product will often ask the recording engineer if there is a non-DSP version of the source file. This is one reason why the LP can sound better and have wider dynamic range. Its nothing to do with the format other than the requirement to be able to play nicely in a car.

See above.
I don't know how long it takes to create a "Master" that differs one to another. If its not that time intensive, it would be nice if studio simply released versions for car or for 2 channel, in home playback. If its not all that hard, I'm surprised non have caught on.
 
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I don't know how long it takes to create a "Master" that differs one to another. If its not that time intensive, it would be nice if studio simply released versions for car or for 2 channel, in home playback. If its not all that hard, I'm surprised non have caught on.
I imagine they might see that as bad marketing ;)
 
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What benefit does a DDA album carry over a CD or streamed album. Sonically that is.

A resurgence of vinyl has also dramatically increased the price of used vinyl. If your selling maybe that is ok. As a consumer, that is a negative.

That depends on the quality of the system. A really good vinyl front end may retrieve more information uncorrupted from a digital sourced vinyl record. Streamers and DACs may or may not be able to retrieve that same amount of information and the mastering might be different. They will surely sound different and some may prefer the Digital vinyl on their systems. So that is surely a benefit. Don’t discount the importance of information retrieval, especially with minimal corruption. One would have to do direct comparisons to know which sounds better.

The issue of sound quality is interesting. I think it is too early to tell whether or not the general public will demand better sound quality. It certainly happened to video over time. It may be a matter of exposure and then the challenge becomes how these new vinyl enthusiasts get exposed to better sound and better quality records. Perhaps they will one day demand better quality vinyl pressings. One can hope.
 
That depends on the quality of the system. A really good vinyl front end may retrieve more information uncorrupted from a digital sourced vinyl record.

Well, if you consider that vinyl artifacts is more information we can agree.

Streamers and DACs may or may not be able to retrieve that same amount of information

Why? Only if the DAC used by the cutting people is better than ours.

and the mastering might be different.

A completely different subject that has been addressed many times by WBF members.

They will surely sound different and some may prefer the Digital vinyl on their systems. So that is surely a benefit. Don’t discount the importance of information retrieval, especially with minimal corruption. One would have to do direct comparisons to know which sounds better.

"information retrieval, especially with minimal corruption" Sounds really nice, Are you addressing it subjectively in your opinion or objectively?

The issue of sound quality is interesting. I think it is too early to tell whether or not the general public will demand better sound quality. It certainly happened to video over time. It may be a matter of exposure and then the challenge becomes how these new vinyl enthusiasts get exposed to better sound and better quality records. Perhaps they will one day demand better quality vinyl pressings. One can hope.

IMO there is not a supply of quality vinyl to feed the vinyl resurgence people in quality sound. The new quality vinyl is targeted at much older existing audiophiles.
 
IMO there is not a supply of quality vinyl to feed the vinyl resurgence people in quality sound. The new quality vinyl is targeted at much older existing audiophiles.

App. 70% of the music listened to in the U.S.A. - even by the young - is older music (Google it). And of course, though my streaming is very close (it’s exceptional, I really enjoy it), older music still sounds better on vinyl.

If people desire better LPs - i.e. non-digital - then they may enquire at places such as: Acoustic Sounds, Classic Records Clarity, Electric Recording Company, fone’, Craft, and Vinyl me Please. Of course, you need a great TT that is properly set up (I suggest by a Pro) to hear the differences.

So, it’s still possible to obtain new analogue records despite what the nay sayers may say. And if the Vinyl Resurgence continues, who knows how many new production facilities will open …
 
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I still remember when my nephew was undergrad at Stanford and his childhood female friend from Mills came over. When they saw the records, they went kind of crazy and just started pulling records down and they knew all the old artists. My nephew wanted to hear Sammy Hagar. They loved it and looked at stuff for over an hour pointing and laughing. Procul Harum, Ten Years after, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Traffic, Crosby Stills & Nash etc.

I was surprised that their generation cared about such things. It's probably the closest I've been to 'coolosity' to jugends.
 
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Knowing you're done is the realisation that chasing better performance won't necessarily make the experience any better. If you do another upgrade, there will be a temporary satisfaction to be taken in the improvement. Yet, it quickly becomes the new norm. The pleasure that comes from listening to a good album is the same as it was before. It can't be any better because the system was already getting you over the line to heaven.

In terms of power amps and speakers, I was done nearly a quarter of a century ago. The seismic shifts have all been at the front end. Turntable, streamer and DAC have only fully came to fruition relatively recently. Both formats can get me there, but vinyl does it more often regardless of origin. Further enhancements are still possible but not necessary. That's not to say I can't be led into temptation.

All three of my kids (aged 37, 26 and 24) are into vinyl. Unlike some here, I don't feel my appreciation and tastes at 72 are somehow superior to those of young persons. And people talk about the arrogance of youth.
 
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That depends on the quality of the system. A really good vinyl front end may retrieve more information uncorrupted from a digital sourced vinyl record. Streamers and DACs may or may not be able to retrieve that same amount of information and the mastering might be different. They will surely sound different and some may prefer the Digital vinyl on their systems. So that is surely a benefit. Don’t discount the importance of information retrieval, especially with minimal corruption. One would have to do direct comparisons to know which sounds better.

The issue of sound quality is interesting. I think it is too early to tell whether or not the general public will demand better sound quality. It certainly happened to video over time. It may be a matter of exposure and then the challenge becomes how these new vinyl enthusiasts get exposed to better sound and better quality records. Perhaps they will one day demand better quality vinyl pressings. One can hope.
A lot of streaming files are 16/44,1 like CD's, the digital master used for creating vinyl might be higher resolution.
 

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