Just saw this on FB
That’s where I got it from as relevant to the discussion. Came up at the same time
Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
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That’s where I got it from as relevant to the discussion. Came up at the same time
RR...what made you choose that exact model? it´s neither the cheapest, nor the top of the line....
Nice summary. I love genuine Italian food though, so let's call this Olive Garden spaghetti as I don't mind throwing that at the wall.
Yeah - they don’t do the best example of spaghetti.
But that was a nice throw back to the Italians and the French discussion from earlier in the thread.
When eldest daughter was just out of pull-ups, we went to get some spaghetti at the store. We got the stuff wrapped in the blue paper, and labelled “Tipo Italiano Spaghettini.”
I told her how to say it about 10 times with the fingers bunched together, and the accent.
When we got home we were questioned as to why we did not get the regular spaghetti in the plastic pack.
And eldest daughter broke into the “Tipo Italiano Spghettini” with the fingers bunched together…
And I let out a “Mama Mia.”
However… being more of a TT and LP fellow… (versus tape or wire)… I am going to look for some pizzas tonight though.
1) Unlike many in this hobby who believe that if it's more expensive it must sound better this is something I do not believe. This is something I admonish others for thinking fallaciously is true.
2) Relatedly, just because there is a higher model doesn't mean that, absent a direct comparison between the higher model and the lower model, I necessarily will prefer the sound of the higher model.
3) I auditioned the Incito S in my own system for several months thanks to Robert Neill of Worldwide Wholesales the distributor. I was able to compare the Incito S to other preamps in situ.
4) For me the Incito S is the best sounding preamp I've ever heard in my system.
5) By many accounts the Imperia preserves everything people like about the Incito S but improves resolution and transparency. Maybe or maybe not it gives up a very small amount of the Incito S' tonal density. That was my totally unsubstantiated suspicion but who knows.
6) The Incito S has the highest gain structure of any of the AC preamps I believe. The unit I demoed was the low gain version with maximum gain of only 8 or 9dB. This is not enough for my system so Stavros agreed with me that the higher gain structure of the Incito S switchable between I think 14 and 19 dB (or 14 and 21dB?) would only sound better in my system than the demo unit. So my demo unit was totally inadequate gain but it was still the best sounding preamp I've heard in my system. This one should only sound materially better.
7) Everyone who has heard both units prefers the Impera. But just assuming I will prefer the higher unit is not me and it is not my philosophy. Knowing how much I like the Incito S, I'm just not somebody who's going to assume I would prefer the more expensive or higher model just because it's the more expensive or higher model.
8) I would've loved to have done a direct comparison in my own system between Incito S and Imperia, but I could not arrange that without bothering Robert Do, which I felt would be unfair and unreasonable considering I was working directly Robert and Stavros.
9) The Incito S I believe has the lowest output impedance of any of the AC preamps. A very low output impedance is helpful for me because I am driving such long interconnects and because I am sometimes loading the preamp with three different amplifiers in a tri-amp configuration. So the super low impedance of 50 ohms should help with this.
10) Unlike many people I am the guy who wants the last Ferrari off the production line, not the first one to have early adoption bragging rights and to show off in the neighborhood. It gives me comfort that Stavros has been making the Incito S continuously for something like six or seven years. Because of this production volume it should be very reliable.
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Incito S is great…enough said!
If you get a chance, try to demo some Qunitessence monos to go with your Incito…Strangely enough they were gonna happen in the same time frame, but only one did.
You could say the essential upgrade won out.
Interesting thoughts, Ron. However your free language can make it confusing for any one wanting to fully understand your reasons. What is meant by "gain structure" of a preamplifier? ("The Incito S has the highest gain structure of any ... ") How can you say that a preamplifier with inadequate gain is the best sounding?
We have many cases where just changing the gain completely changed the sound of the preamplfier - e.g. the VTL 7.5 mk1 , mk2 or mk3.
BTW, IMO very few in this forum still believe that "that if it's more expensive it must sound better". What experience has thought us is that , most of the time, in an adequate system and used with proper knowledge, more expensive can result in better sound. This debate has been going since the 90's, fueled by discussions around the Audio Research SP8/SP10 and the conrad johnson PV10/PV9 preamplfiers. Curiously it was centered most of the time in preamplfiers, as now.
FWIW Dept.: the output impedance is often measured at 1KHz. Its useful though to know its output impedance at 20Hz too, especially if the preamp is driving more than one amplifier. If the preamp uses output coupling caps or an output transformer the 20Hz output impedance is likely higher at 20Hz. With coupling caps its often a multiple of the 1KHz value.
That formula I gave you for calculating the capacitor value a little while back is very useful for this situation too if you have output coupling caps (which most tube preamps do; ours is a bit of an exception as it has a direct coupled output). Let's assume that the amps all have a 100KOhm input impedance; the three of them in parallel is 33.3KOhms. You might want to plug in whatever value your amps actually have into that formula and see what the cutoff frequency is. If it is above 2Hz there will be phase shift in the audio band- up to 10x the cutoff frequency.
The 50Ohm output impedance means the preamp will not distort when driving a 5KOhm load (using the 10x rule that the source impedance be 1/10th that of the load its driving to prevent distortion). But the cutoff frequency is a variable too since that describes bass impact. Since you are using multiple amps its worth doing this math!
When do we get to see a photo of it in place? Maybe a video too...??
By structure I meant the two gain settings.
Very easily. Shall I write it again?
[please forgive my poor English]
So you have three outputs on this Incito S ?
Are the three outputs a custom-made option ? (basically, it provides one output, afaik)
Though not inexpensive, as of value for money, that Incito S definitely seems to be stunning.
In Lille (France), a preamp comparison has been made a few years ago by Jean Hiraga, who is a legend there as of horns and tubes. The listening session took place at one of his friends place, who is a collector. The horns speakers of Mr Hiraga were used for the comparison with three other preamps, some of them prestigious. Although Jean Hiraga usually speaks very little after a demo (does his legendary discretion come from his Japanese origins?), he said about the Incito S: "c'est fantastique !" (it's fantastic !). Coming from Jean Hiraga, it says a lot.
The friend, host of the demo, bought the Incito S the same day. Everyone that evening agreed that the Incito S was the best preamp of the comparison.
(I did not personally attend, but I have a first-hand account.)
No; two outputs but I don't think they're buffered, so effectively one output.
Cool!
I have not heard of these intelligences before hand orfeo , most interesting … especially considering the luminance of JH .
Ok, strange definition, but I now see what you mean.
Very easily. Shall I write it again?
Not needed. Please just say precisely what you mean by "inadequate gain".
It is reported in a french audio forum. https://www.forum-hifi.fr/thread-6752-page-10.html You can easily translate it using the google translator or similar. As stated it was a unique event.
In order to understand Jean Hiraga we must remember he listens loud and look at his playlist https://www.laudiodefrance.fr/2020/04/02/les-albums-indispensables-de-jean-hiraga/ " This is the difference between recordings intended to evaluate the possibilities of an installation and demonstration discs intended to surprise an audience with their surrealist content." (Jean Hiraga) "I often pick recordings from it.
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actual audition in my system:
VTL TL-7.5 Series III
Trafomatic Lara
Hovland HP-100
Hegel P30A
Soulution 727
extensive hearsay research and triangulation discussions with people who have directly compared in their own systems Incito S to preamps on the list above and the list below:
conrad-johnson Art88
Aries Cerat Impera
Alieno preamp
Zanden Chukho
VTL TL-7.5 Series III
Trafomatic Lara
Hovland HP-100
Hegel P30A
Soulution 727
extensive hearsay research and triangulation discussions with people who have directly compared in their own systems Incito S to preamps on the list above and the list below:
conrad-johnson Art88
Aries Cerat Impera
Alieno preamp
Zanden Chukho
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