Why do we love vinyl more than digital?

[andromedaaudio]

Why do we love vinyl more ???

Because digital sounds boring and crap

Only problem with vinyl in my system is the surface noise (i dont only want to play the nice records) and handling / cleaning .
As i was/am in for a nice phonostage to reduce noise and a nice sacd player , i might seriously skip all that a bit and go high quality tape which has very low noisefloor and yet sounds organic , it might be even cheaper
Also good for designing speakers ,as its good to create an " absolute standard " , look forward to hear some tapeproject music.

It might also be partly because digital gets messed up by recording engineers /techniques on a lot of albums ,i dont know

 

[rbbert]

you have to form your opinions for your own self. and judge the credibility of others as you see fit to do.

personally; people who have gone to the trouble to equip themselves with daily opportunities to compare formats at high levels of performance have the least motivation to create their own reality and the most opportunity to see the truth...

and yet there are still different opinions! Barry Diament says 24/192 PCM sounds best, Allen Sides says DSD sounds best, Doug Sax wonders why he's cutting LP's from 24/192 masters instead of selling those, Greg Stidsen of NAD/PSB (TAS "Back Page" March 2013 - for mep) says 24/96 PCM is better than analog...

 

[Shaffer]

LPs all day long. Not even a contest in my house. Why? Because, LPs sound better and are more fun to play.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

and yet there are still different opinions! Barry Diament says 24/192 PCM sounds best, Allen Sides says DSD sounds best, Doug Sax wonders why he's cutting LP's from 24/192 masters instead of selling those, Greg Stidsen of NAD/PSB (TAS "Back Page" March 2013 - for mep) says 24/96 PCM is better than analog...

Are they saying this because of vested interest?

 

[rbbert]

Are they saying this because of vested interest?

Perhaps the NAD/PSB guy (I think they make digital equipment but no analog), but Doug Sax is employable again, so his vested interest is the other way.

 

[mep]

and yet there are still different opinions! Barry Diament says 24/192 PCM sounds best, Allen Sides says DSD sounds best, Doug Sax wonders why he's cutting LP's from 24/192 masters instead of selling those, Greg Stidsen of NAD/PSB (TAS "Back Page" March 2013 - for mep) says 24/96 PCM is better than analog...

Yeah, I read that little last page article you referred to. Mr. Stidsen is not a recording engineer, he just works at NAD. When I read that, it made me think to never take any of his opinions too seriously.

 

[andromedaaudio]

The best SOTA turntable (are there more ?), is made of unobtanium from Pandora and it stands currently in a temple high in the atlas mountains and plays only once a year , its impossible to put a pricesticker on it as its become unaccesable for todays spaceships

 

[rbbert]

...When I read that, it made me think to never take any of his opinions too seriously.

The same way I feel about Harley and Valin, although not the exact reason.

 

[Orb]

Mep,
I hope that it was clear I was joking and I have no experience with the MC275 mk6. Besides I am not a McIntosh expert, but I love the blue panels!

And now green glowing tubes, even better!!!
Can be turned off from what I read for those panicking at the thought.
Cheers
Orb

 

[mep]

The same way I feel about Harley and Valin, although not the exact reason.

Trust me, I get it. It seems like every month TAS is proclaiming some new product as a world beater.

 

[opus111]

Well, I have enjoyed your posts about NOS DACs - but I find your answer rather disturbing. If you are just looking for enjoyment fun in a room having acoustics that sucks your are perhaps mostly looking for something that compensates or someway overcomes your acoustics problems.

Let me clarify further - I said its acoustics suck because I've done nothing to treat it, its purely as-is. It has significant slap echo off the back wall for example, the floor is uncovered with carpet or rugs. I could put some kind of treatment up on that wall but to date the low-hanging fruit for me has been improving the electronics. Now that I have addressed those issues to my satisfaction I could indeed turn to room treatment but for the fact that I'm seriously considering moving.

Perhaps you have given the details elsewhere and I did not notice, but what is the system you are using to evaluate DACs?

An exceedingly cheap one - the amp is my new chipamp and the speakers are about the cheapest passive XO ones I could find that looked decent on Taobao - http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.10.68.k6PJUN&id=8581991365. I've modded the XOs.

I have to say I have read many appreciations of A R-A room and yours is the less enthusiastic and critical I have ever seen. Please do not take my comment as a negative one - I always like to know what people think of known SOTA systems as it allows me to weight their opinions.

Its true to say I wasn't overwhelmed at the time yes. My tastes though have changed significantly in the intervening time, but i doubt I would be impressed by the Quads even now in such a large room. Sure they're transparent but if it were me I'd probably want to extend the bass response significantly and get a bit more SPL.

 

[JackD201]

So very true, yet most audiophiles will "concede" that digital has the lower noise floor.

Not the case with my turntable, which offers far superior low level detail retrieval when compared to any digital player I've tried. Actually, I found that many digital players offer relatively poor noise floor characteristics, esp SACD players, in which you can hear low level details get lost behind some digital hash/fog.

tb1

You must have a pristine record collection. If you ever need to unload, please put me on your list of candidates.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I hesitate to put my head into the lion's mouth, but can there be such a thing as sota?I doubt it.In the end, no matter how much you spend, personal preference is the final arbiter.I recently heard a three million dollar system, only analogue as the owner won't tolerate digital.It sounds pretty wonderful, as you might expect.I don't know of a more costly system in existence (probably are some) using only analogue.But it's not perfect.
As an indicator: the deck is a special build Rockport, one of just three created in 2012 with refinements well beyond the Sirius three(the owner has a range of Rockports alongside a Continum,Goldmund reference and various other decks.I've heard them all, and the special order Rockports are best, to my ears.Sadly,the technical genius behind these Rockports died a few months ago. The three specials were his last work.Given the horrendous cost and complexity, they may. well never be beaten.Commercially, they would need to cost around one million dollars.But they were only created to 'push the limit', not to make money.Is that sota? Must be, but that is still only an opinion.
Just to avoid confusion. The technical guy behind the Rockport 'specials' was called Tim Sheridan, and was a world-class authority on air bearing technology.He did work on the current NASA Mars mission, was involved in several very fine air bearing decks, and in the three '2012' Rockports, achieved consistent speed stability of one part per million.
He died late last year, still in his early 50s.

i know this gentleman who has this room, and have spoken to him on the phone a few times. delightful guy. one of his Rockport tt's is the one i use to own.

his room and 'system' are actually not so over the top (as he described it to me) other than his tt, arm and cartridge collection. he has over 50 stone body Koetsu's for example. he has a number of very unique pieces of audio history not so much for the performance as for the pleasure of owning them.

should he desire to have any sort of over the top system he certainly could, but he values the location where he lives and puts up with the space limitations of that. he is having fun. maybe in the last year he has moved into a larger place, but i doubt it.

 

[paskinn]

i know this gentleman who has this room, and have spoken to him on the phone a few times. delightful guy. one of his Rockport tt's is the one i use to own.

his room and 'system' are actually not so over the top (as he described it to me) other than his tt, arm and cartridge collection. he has over 50 stone body Koetsu's for example. he has a number of very unique pieces of audio history not so much for the performance as for the pleasure of owning them.

should he desire to have any sort of over the top system he certainly could, but he values the location where he lives and puts up with the space limitations of that. he is having fun. maybe in the last year he has moved into a larger place, but i doubt it.

This could quickly get into the 'rich mans' toys type of game.Which is amusing but a bit silly, if only because there is always someone wealthier/more enthusiastic/more handsome/slimmer and so on: But the guy we'l call the 'Rockport Man' hasn't met you, and you haven't been to his house.Perhaps you chatted on the phone.I'm afraid that you are a bit confused about his system being 'nothing special'. How about the use of transformers using 20lbs of platinum? Or an American designed phonostage which weighs 300lbs and uses 48 valves.The point of all this silliness (and he approaches the task of building his system with a lot of humour)is just to see how far he can push the notion of sota.And believe me, he's light years beyond any commercial product.As for his listening room, he has a number of houses in several countries so I couldn't be too specific.The main system is pretty remarkable, although I think hje should dampen his room a bit more..But that's his choice.As I said, this does sound as if it is about nothing but bragging rights;But 'Rockport man' never boasts about his system, or talksmuch within the hi fi community.I've known him for 30 years, when he was a poor man with few prospects.Through huge efforts he has become wealthy.But he is still a hobbyist, always trying to learn more, always curious.As for the platinum wiring, that was a b it much I suppose.

 

[microstrip]

So very true, yet most audiophiles will "concede" that digital has the lower noise floor.

Not the case with my turntable, which offers far superior low level detail retrieval when compared to any digital player I've tried. Actually, I found that many digital players offer relatively poor noise floor characteristics, esp SACD players, in which you can hear low level details get lost behind some digital hash/fog.

tb1

Tbone,
I can understand what you mean and agree with your point. A proper vinyl setup - and for me a proper vinyl setup includes a synergistic combination of turntable - tonearm - cartridge and phono RIAA electronics - with an excellent recording and pressing shows a charming fluidity compared to the thickness - perhaps what you call hash/fog - of digital. In this fluidity, detail and nuance are perceived as more natural and establish a better communication with the listener. All IMH(very subjective)O - others can listen differently.

 

[microstrip]

I hesitate to put my head into the lion's mouth, but can there be such a thing as sota?I doubt it.In the end, no matter how much you spend, personal preference is the final arbiter.I recently heard a three million dollar system, only analogue as the owner won't tolerate digital.It sounds pretty wonderful, as you might expect.I don't know of a more costly system in existence (probably are some) using only analogue.But it's not perfect. (...)

As you put the head in the lion's mouth, I will ask you a question. Surely it is not perfect, but did you ever listen to a system that in your opinion sounds better than this $3M one? If your answer is affirmative, what were the aspects that you considered better in this other better system? Perhaps it is not the main aim of this thread, but the opinions of people who listened to these systems are valuable in these debates mainly if they are illustrated with examples. Sound quality is a personal preference but, at less for me, the main interest of audio forums is the presentation of our singular preferences and how we implement them, as well as the analysis of others implementations.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

This could quickly get into the 'rich mans' toys type of game.Which is amusing but a bit silly, if only because there is always someone wealthier/more enthusiastic/more handsome/slimmer and so on: But the guy we'l call the 'Rockport Man' hasn't met you, and you haven't been to his house.Perhaps you chatted on the phone.I'm afraid that you are a bit confused about his system being 'nothing special'. How about the use of transformers using 20lbs of platinum? Or an American designed phonostage which weighs 300lbs and uses 48 valves.The point of all this silliness (and he approaches the task of building his system with a lot of humour)is just to see how far he can push the notion of sota.And believe me, he's light years beyond any commercial product.As for his listening room, he has a number of houses in several countries so I couldn't be too specific.The main system is pretty remarkable, although I think hje should dampen his room a bit more..But that's his choice.As I said, this does sound as if it is about nothing but bragging rights;But 'Rockport man' never boasts about his system, or talksmuch within the hi fi community.I've known him for 30 years, when he was a poor man with few prospects.Through huge efforts he has become wealthy.But he is still a hobbyist, always trying to learn more, always curious.As for the platinum wiring, that was a b it much I suppose.

i only related what he told me and how he characterized his system. when he spoke to me on the phone he made a point of saying he had not optimized system in the way i had done, that he had smaller speakers and a less than ideal room. it was just not his priority. of course; he has possibly the most outstanding analog gear collection in the world as well as many other quite interesting and valuable pieces of gear. he has some vintage speakers that could be worth a ridiculous amount.

we spoke about how Tim had improved the Siruis III motor drive to approximately what Andy had intended to do with a Sirius V had that been built (he has Rockport speakers)....and how Tim was doing health wise at that time. i knew Tim too.

i've not met him personally; but over the years i owned my Rockport we emailed a few times, and then after he ended up owning my previous Rockport we talked about that and other analog issues. i encouraged him to listen to the Durand Telos tonearm which he did and later we discussed it. at the time i'd just got my Ortofon Anna and he already had one too. he was the only one i knew with one. i guess he is a Koetsu and Ortofon dealer.

in any case, i certainly did not intend to take away from his amazing approach to the hobby and agree he likely has 3 million dollars tied up.

i invited him to visit me on his next trip to the states or CES. who knows.

maybe his room acoustics and system is without peer, and he has done all he can in that area. but that is not what he told me in multiple communications.

 

[Groucho]

As with cables, the same with vinyl:

Is the vinyl merely a better, more transparent medium for the original master tape than digital? Or is the vinyl system adding, for want of a better term, 'fairy dust' to the music?

My perception is that the stock, rational-sounding answer is the former, but in their heart of hearts, people really want to believe the latter.

(To a certain person located in China: please don't answer with a clever-dick put-down, followed by a smiley. In fact, please don't answer at all.)

 

[opus111]

If you mean me, why don't you want an answer? Coz you can't handle the truth?

 

[Groucho]

If you mean me, why don't you want an answer? Coz you can't handle the truth?

Dear oh dear. I'm just trying to picture what it must be like to be you. I guess one day you will manage to sneak past your mum and out into the street. You'll not be able to resist making some clever-dick remark to the wrong person, and he'll rip your head off. So very sad...